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PDT and ALG?
- Thread starter flyinhard
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DASHDRIVER
Uber User
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2001
- Posts
- 265
Along with agreeing to the two previous statments, evverything here at PDT seems to be stabilizing for the most part. We made it out of bankrupsy with the rest of the group and everyone is waiting to hear the plan for rj fleet. I wouldn't start holding my breath yet but things could turn around pretty quickly at the three WO's. Lots of CA's are starting to leave for Airtran and a few more for places like FO and ATA. I have heard from the CA reserves and other places upgrades may be needed soon if only to cover atrition. It would be good to get our guys and gals off the street.
Its either going to go really good or really bad and it should happen soon.
Heres hoping for the good...
regards, DD
Its either going to go really good or really bad and it should happen soon.
Heres hoping for the good...
regards, DD
31, but your right about lots of folks leaving for other carriers. I got a job in construction that pays about the same as a 7yr Capt. Very stable company, strong growth, nice people to work with and home every night. I love to fly but I think if I get a recall notice and go back my wife will throw my but out on the street.
I thought you guys had around 150 on the street. Hope they get a chance to fly again soon.
Good Luck,
I thought you guys had around 150 on the street. Hope they get a chance to fly again soon.
Good Luck,
dondk
Don't you wish
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 887
NCFlyer
31...
Since you guys usually had/have small classes... How far back does that go? Summer of '01???
I thought I read you guys had a class somewhere in Nov 01, but they never completed and were let go before an "official" furlough..
DASHDRIVER
How long or bad are the upgrades looking? At one point it was about 2 1/2 years.. Hopefully it will not be like it was some 3-4 years ago at 6 or better to get to the left seat...
31...
Since you guys usually had/have small classes... How far back does that go? Summer of '01???
I thought I read you guys had a class somewhere in Nov 01, but they never completed and were let go before an "official" furlough..
DASHDRIVER
How long or bad are the upgrades looking? At one point it was about 2 1/2 years.. Hopefully it will not be like it was some 3-4 years ago at 6 or better to get to the left seat...
AceCrackshot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2003
- Posts
- 380
Goes halfway into the January 02 class...as far as upgrades go, I'd imagine that any Piedmont F/O has a better chance of being an astronaut than a DHC8 Capt.
Top third of the seniority list are lifers...and J4J will effectively squash the upgrade hopes of a bunch of the more junior folks.
Especially IF the RJs come, and replace rather than supplant the Trash8.
Busterman, know how you feel...the local Police Dept. is pretty competitive with Piedmont, thrashes Piedmont on retirement and benefits, and has a much more competitve schedule.
I certainly don't hope our industry becomes a case of you get what you pay for.
Top third of the seniority list are lifers...and J4J will effectively squash the upgrade hopes of a bunch of the more junior folks.
Especially IF the RJs come, and replace rather than supplant the Trash8.
Busterman, know how you feel...the local Police Dept. is pretty competitive with Piedmont, thrashes Piedmont on retirement and benefits, and has a much more competitve schedule.
I certainly don't hope our industry becomes a case of you get what you pay for.
NCFlyer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2002
- Posts
- 320
Busterman:
Your thought about 150 being on the street is nearly accurate.
About 1 year ago we had 550-560 pilots on the seniority list at PDT. Now the list shows officially 412 pilots (including those on LOAs, but not including the 31 on furlough). Judging from the seniority list change from month to month we seem to have 10-15 pilots leaving each month. With pilots leaving each month I hope that we would start to see some recall of our furloughed pilots soon.
Your thought about 150 being on the street is nearly accurate.
About 1 year ago we had 550-560 pilots on the seniority list at PDT. Now the list shows officially 412 pilots (including those on LOAs, but not including the 31 on furlough). Judging from the seniority list change from month to month we seem to have 10-15 pilots leaving each month. With pilots leaving each month I hope that we would start to see some recall of our furloughed pilots soon.
Best Case Worst Case Estimate
Lets Look at a best case worst case situation at say Allegheny in ref. to the "comming" jets factoring in J4ourjobs. The info and data is based off of info given from crystal city press releases and Alg weekly updates. Taking this info I feel we can get a best and worst case estimate of what is likely to happen here in the next year to 2 years, here goes.
Best case, this ones pretty easy - We Allegheny are allotted say 30 RJ's with no dash retirements for several years and when we do get ride of the dash enough jets will come to support the 50% mainline and the current Alg sen. list.
Now using this data taken from the may bid for pilot #'s. We have 365 total line flying spots with 17 pilots either off line for LOA, ALPA or being training/checkairman/sim guys for a total of 386 onthe senority list.
As for the number of RJ's my guess based on co. info would be 30 jets to ALG in the next 1 to 1.5 years. Where do I get this you ask, they say they want to place an order for 50 with 50 more in the next 30 days or so. Conservitivly this give us 30 RJ at AlG.
30 rj's is actually like 15 rj due to mainline guys being forced upon us. at 10 pilots per RJ and us not getting ride of any dash8's (currently have 45) we would need to hire as senior guys and J4j mainline guys went to the RJ spots would open for the Dash. Then as we get more orders in 2 years the dashes would go and be replaced with RJ as to not displace anyone - There you have it, Best Case Situation, jets come and nobody goes to the street.
______________Worst Case_________________
Lets look at a worst case: First they announce that they ordered 50 jets for the WO carriers. Then they announce that the Dash8 will be retired very fast starting at the end of the summer. My guess out of the 50 jets ALG gets 15. This supports 150 pilots at 10 per a/c. But remember 50% go to our mainline "brothers" so as the dash goes and we are left with 15 jets the top 75 half of 150, give or take a few) of ALG's seniority remain. This would support a DOH of say mid to semi-late 80's. Of the 386 now on the list 311 would be furloughed. And there you have it worst case. Or they could just shut us down then no jobs ever.
_______________somewhere inbetween________________
I willing to bet it will be somewhere inbetween. My estimate will be something like this. My estimate cover now to say 2 years from now so say march of 2005.
Here Goes: Sometime in the next month to month and a half managements anounces orders for 50 rj to the WO with unspecified options. I can see allegheny getting 20 of thoes (well just guess that to run the numbers) this is really like getting 10 rj's due to the 50% mainline "bros" horning in. At 10 pilots per rj this is 100 ALG pilots for the jet. Now we have the dashes. Using the data from the summer 2002 J4J threat letter for dash retirements we will be at 20 (give or take a few) dash8's by the end of 2004. Now the dash remains 100% WO staffed and my staffing numbers show 8.5 pilots per dash. 20 times 8.5 is 170. So to get the remaining ALG guys add 100 (alg jet pilots) and 170 (alg dash pilots) and get 270 pilots from todays ALG sen. list. So if the list remains the same I.E. nobody leaves we will have 386-270= 116 pilots on furlough. Our fleet would be 20 rj's and 20 dashes. Like I said before the top 270 pilots from todays sen. list would have jobs, this supports a DOH of Feb/March 2000 assuming nobody senior leaves in this time frame. I did not assume age 60 retirements also which are slow for the next year but kick into gear after mid 04 (yes that right boys age 60 retirement at a commuter airline). Especially between 05 and 2010. Then after 04 as the rest of the dsah8's go we will at least replace them 1 for 1 hopefully 1 for 2 and the 116 or so on furlough come back. Well there you have it, like I said it's just my guess however I tried to base it on solid facts and info given to us I would not be supprised if it looks like this give or take a few jets/dash's and staffing numbers.
__________________________________________________
Below is a selected paragraph copied from 4/4/03 CP update.
"US Airways spokesman David Castelveter announced Monday that US Airways was in negotiations with both Bombardier and Embraer and would be placing an order within 30 days for 100 aircraft with one of those companies. The initial order would be for 50 50-seaters and 50 70-seaters, with options for 100 more of each, to be operated by USAirways wholly-owned subsidiaries."
Hope this helps, What do you guys think?
Lets Look at a best case worst case situation at say Allegheny in ref. to the "comming" jets factoring in J4ourjobs. The info and data is based off of info given from crystal city press releases and Alg weekly updates. Taking this info I feel we can get a best and worst case estimate of what is likely to happen here in the next year to 2 years, here goes.
Best case, this ones pretty easy - We Allegheny are allotted say 30 RJ's with no dash retirements for several years and when we do get ride of the dash enough jets will come to support the 50% mainline and the current Alg sen. list.
Now using this data taken from the may bid for pilot #'s. We have 365 total line flying spots with 17 pilots either off line for LOA, ALPA or being training/checkairman/sim guys for a total of 386 onthe senority list.
As for the number of RJ's my guess based on co. info would be 30 jets to ALG in the next 1 to 1.5 years. Where do I get this you ask, they say they want to place an order for 50 with 50 more in the next 30 days or so. Conservitivly this give us 30 RJ at AlG.
30 rj's is actually like 15 rj due to mainline guys being forced upon us. at 10 pilots per RJ and us not getting ride of any dash8's (currently have 45) we would need to hire as senior guys and J4j mainline guys went to the RJ spots would open for the Dash. Then as we get more orders in 2 years the dashes would go and be replaced with RJ as to not displace anyone - There you have it, Best Case Situation, jets come and nobody goes to the street.
______________Worst Case_________________
Lets look at a worst case: First they announce that they ordered 50 jets for the WO carriers. Then they announce that the Dash8 will be retired very fast starting at the end of the summer. My guess out of the 50 jets ALG gets 15. This supports 150 pilots at 10 per a/c. But remember 50% go to our mainline "brothers" so as the dash goes and we are left with 15 jets the top 75 half of 150, give or take a few) of ALG's seniority remain. This would support a DOH of say mid to semi-late 80's. Of the 386 now on the list 311 would be furloughed. And there you have it worst case. Or they could just shut us down then no jobs ever.
_______________somewhere inbetween________________
I willing to bet it will be somewhere inbetween. My estimate will be something like this. My estimate cover now to say 2 years from now so say march of 2005.
Here Goes: Sometime in the next month to month and a half managements anounces orders for 50 rj to the WO with unspecified options. I can see allegheny getting 20 of thoes (well just guess that to run the numbers) this is really like getting 10 rj's due to the 50% mainline "bros" horning in. At 10 pilots per rj this is 100 ALG pilots for the jet. Now we have the dashes. Using the data from the summer 2002 J4J threat letter for dash retirements we will be at 20 (give or take a few) dash8's by the end of 2004. Now the dash remains 100% WO staffed and my staffing numbers show 8.5 pilots per dash. 20 times 8.5 is 170. So to get the remaining ALG guys add 100 (alg jet pilots) and 170 (alg dash pilots) and get 270 pilots from todays ALG sen. list. So if the list remains the same I.E. nobody leaves we will have 386-270= 116 pilots on furlough. Our fleet would be 20 rj's and 20 dashes. Like I said before the top 270 pilots from todays sen. list would have jobs, this supports a DOH of Feb/March 2000 assuming nobody senior leaves in this time frame. I did not assume age 60 retirements also which are slow for the next year but kick into gear after mid 04 (yes that right boys age 60 retirement at a commuter airline). Especially between 05 and 2010. Then after 04 as the rest of the dsah8's go we will at least replace them 1 for 1 hopefully 1 for 2 and the 116 or so on furlough come back. Well there you have it, like I said it's just my guess however I tried to base it on solid facts and info given to us I would not be supprised if it looks like this give or take a few jets/dash's and staffing numbers.
__________________________________________________
Below is a selected paragraph copied from 4/4/03 CP update.
"US Airways spokesman David Castelveter announced Monday that US Airways was in negotiations with both Bombardier and Embraer and would be placing an order within 30 days for 100 aircraft with one of those companies. The initial order would be for 50 50-seaters and 50 70-seaters, with options for 100 more of each, to be operated by USAirways wholly-owned subsidiaries."
Hope this helps, What do you guys think?
Last edited:
dondk
Don't you wish
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 887
Scenario's
For the WO's I hope for the best case scenario. The only thing I saw let out..
That they (Crystal city) go with a 5 crews per plane staffing model. If not, that will throw one heck of a wrench into any scenario. I know some RJ operators run anywhere from a low of 4 crews per plane.
Question though.. I thought somewhere the WO structure was suppose to be....
MDA would get all 70 seaters or better and would get jets first.
After they had some staffing then they rest of the RJ's would work into the WO's.
MDA is suppose to be 100% furloughed Airways, are they not?
For the WO's I hope for the best case scenario. The only thing I saw let out..
That they (Crystal city) go with a 5 crews per plane staffing model. If not, that will throw one heck of a wrench into any scenario. I know some RJ operators run anywhere from a low of 4 crews per plane.
Question though.. I thought somewhere the WO structure was suppose to be....
MDA would get all 70 seaters or better and would get jets first.
After they had some staffing then they rest of the RJ's would work into the WO's.
MDA is suppose to be 100% furloughed Airways, are they not?
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