PDK and their F'd-Up Approaches!!!

[KATL8R26L]

pdk

This is back to the basics,,,,,,,, it's time to crank and bank now i know every one remembers how to do that,,,,,Then chop and Drop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes that is good,,,,,,,,,, Then back on the power,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, nothing to it.

Just truning bound and you best be up on your game
, make it and you are the hero mis it and your a zero. Been there done that its fun.....................................

 

[LXApilot]

PDK Approaches

Ahh yes... DeKalb Peachtree Airport...

I've been flying out of PDK since I was 16 as a student pilot, now I am 20 and a Citation copilot, same darn thing... I've seen everything they can think of over there and have managed to live through it so far. It can get VERY busy, and especially interesting with low ceilings and a strong westerly wind and they are shooting the VOR27 circle to 2R. Used to have some f-ed up runway configurations before the FAA put a stop to it. I've never really had problems shooting the ILS 20L as long as you don't mind being vectored directly over the top of the FAF with the speed juiced up.

CaptainV is right, PDK IS a training tower- but they have hardly anything to do with the way the ATL tracon vectors traffic in the area. Hartsfield runs the show, and the satellite airports just have to deal with it. At rush hour the ATL tracon routinely ground stops PDK because of airspace saturation ... general aviation is the thorn in Atlanta's airspace image...

The problem with LZU used to be that ATL approach radar/radio coverage was very poor in that area, and so approach had to keep you high and tight to be sure they could keep in contact with you. A new ASR-9 radar and a new approach control frequency have fixed those problems. Haven't been slammed into LZU for a few months now... hopefully that has been fixed. However, I do know that once again the brilliant ATL tracon has decided to change up the traffic flow in and out of PDK, we've been getting some f-ed up departure vectors lately (remain at 4000 and vectored to hell and back- 210 speed or less?!?)

But what the (!#@ flying into airports like PDK are so rewarding! If you can handle PDK like a professional, the passengers never know the difference. But it serves for a little extra smile on your face when you know you could handle it like a professional- thats what we are paid to do. In one simple comparison, PDK is like flying into the O'Hare of general aviation!

 

[maverick_fp00]

atis whiskey:


i think that was a pretty f-ed up statement you made there... a little cocky aren't we?

 

[westwind driver]

Welcome to the A80 tracon. Atlanta satelite airport approaches suck. Trying getting the Kai Tak turn on to the ILS 25 at LZU, freaking 'you're 3 miles from the marker, turn right heading 230, maintain 4000 until established, blah blah blah.'

Usually we watch the GS slide under us and we can't go below 3000 until on the LOC, usually join the LOC at GWNET, the LOM, and have to dive bomb down to GS.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

Man,

Who did you guys piss off? I never get treated like that going into or out of any of the satellites in ATL (I am based at one). I have had to make suggestions to controllers before, but find that 99.9% of the time they do a great job.

As for PDK being a training tower, EVERY tower in the FAA system is a training tower, either that or some guys in the ATL tower were having some fun with me.

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

The atlanta satellite airport procedures are all there for a reason. Nothing to do with training or anything else. Even during IMC with approaches into FTY PDK ATL RYY and all the others, they still need 3 miles and a 1000 feet.

Its like cramming the autobahn down a dirt road. Everyone's going real fast until they wanna stop.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

RightTurns is correct, think of it this way: Its an IFR afternoon with winds out of the west. You have 2 inbounds for the ILS 20L at PDK, one C-17 doing the ILS 29 into MGE, and a couple more props being vectored for the VOR-A to land runway 26 at FTY. Then you have departures climbing off PDK eastbound. FTY and MGE both are only 10 miles or so from PDK. The finals for both of their runways not only cross each other, but they also cross right over the top of PDK. Trying to vector all of these airplanes keeping them 3 miles or 1000ft apart can easily get messy. Oh, and lets not forget that ALL of these satellite airplanes have to be kept below Hartsfield's arrival and departure streams. Speaking of Hartsfield, someone mentioned being slowed and vectored like crazy when departing satellites. Well, Hartsfield has just recently added a brand new set of RNAV arrivals and departures. If you're a bizjet departing a satellite airport then you're going to have to exit using the same departure gates as those ATL departures. However, since they are on an RNAV procedure and you're just on vectors, odds are that you will be vectored to fit into the gaps between them. Vectoring out of a departure gate is just like vectoring to a runway. Everyone has to be in a line, so this is why you're getting vectored and slowed.

I've always had a pretty strong interest in ATC, so its something that I've studied a bit over the past few years. While no controller is perfect, I try to keep in mind the things that those guys/girls have to deal with that we as pilots cannot always see looking out of the window or even on a TCAS. Also, controllers don't know what your specific aircraft can and cannot do. Some airplanes can drop like bricks with little effort at all, and others simply cannot. If what they are asking is going to put you or your passengers in an unsafe situation, simply tell them you can't do it. It may cost you an extra few minutes of vectoring, but its not worth putting yourself in a bad situation. Anyhow, thats my 2 cents.

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

Also, controllers don't know what your specific aircraft can and cannot do. Some airplanes can drop like bricks with little effort at all, and others simply cannot.

I think this applies more to the pilot. But it is a variable that needs to be considered.

CRJ1's = $*@!*

"Say rate of climb"
"480 FPM"

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I learned to fly at PDK and currently based there, it's really not a hard airport at all. The thing I hate about most any airport is the taxi and PDk is very easy to taxi at.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I'd agree that VOR-A approach is a tough one in bad vis, at night. Easy to see the airport from a couple miles but not easy to make out the runway for 2R. They do seem to use that ILS sometimes with tailwinds. Not too big a deal. Been in there less than ten times. Wouldn't say it is all that busy. HPN and ACK in the summer are twice as busy. BED and TEB seem much busier as well.

Mr. I.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

THE VOR into 27 is not my favorite approach either.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

During low vis we used to ask to overfly the field and enter the left downwind for 2R if doing the VOR 27 circle. That seemed to help make it a bit easier. Tower always seems to want everyone to circle southeast, but if the vis is low that can become really difficult (especially in a jet).

 

[mnixon]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** piston drivers. Always running their mouths off.

Pretty interesting considering you have Piston A/c in your profile. Tool

 

[PA31Ho]

It probably isn't so bad if you are a flying a turbine in and out because you can keep up with the speed they need you to be at. But when going in there flying a Navajo or 421, forget about it... I've never had a decent setup going in PDK on IFR days.

 

[400A]

Keep in mind PDK is a training tower for controllers, although hopefully not during low IMC.

and if you think PDK is bad, try LZU. we'd consistently get bad vectors to the loc, sometimes they try to get us to join inside the marker. not a big deal if you'd configured early, but in the Lear we'd typically slow down a few miles away from GWNET. got to the point where we'd request 10 mile finals, but get vectored directly to the marker.

That is true, but you dont get those vectors from PDK tower, you get them from Atlanta.