PBS Good or Bad?

[Tank68]

PBS Thumbs up or Down?

Just wondering what those of you who bid using PBS think of the system?

And for my SWA brothers is PBS avoidable or is it right up there with death and taxes?

 

[DrewBlows]

Bad, from my junior FO perspective.

 

[pkober]

We use Carman/Jepp at CAL and it sucks. Too complicated with too many variables. Wrecked QOL.

At TWA we used Ad Opt and it worked very well. I usually got 90% of what I asked for and the best seniority I was ever at on any airplane was around 50%.

I think PBS, if it's a good product, is a good thing.

 

[ACWild]

CAL's PBS is a great example of the negatives. Once I crossed the "splat line," life suddenly got really good. I had to cross the fifty percent mark on seniority. There wasn't a grey month either. It went from pure crap to exactly what I want. To me, a PBS system should be more equitable. As it stands here, it favors the senior pilots above the splat line at the cost of those below. The closer we get to summer flying scheds, the higher the splat line climbs.
There are other issues, but it depends on who you ask. Some guys feel they are getting shafted on their vacation time, others say it works out for them. It's too inconsistant.
A friend of mine who's senior to me bid to get Thanksgiving off. Since I was relatively junior, I didn't bother to and assumed that I'd work that day. I actually got the day off without trying and he ended up working it. The PBS gurus were quick to point fingers, but it just shouldn't have happened in my opinion.

 

[Longhorn]

I like it....that with flica and you can usually get whatever you want.

 

[Double Shot]

PBS Thumbs up or Down?

Just wondering what those of you who bid using PBS think of the system?

And for my SWA brothers is PBS avoidable or is it right up there with death and taxes?

Why are you even going here? The company has not asked for it so why are we?

 

[Tank68]

How do you know what the company has asked for? You a fly on the wall in the negotiating room? I have heard nothing but would not be surprised if PBS is in the company's proposal. Their arguement is it saves money. Well I would like to know more about the system before they asked of me to vote on it. (if it comes to that)

 

[Cardenal]

In my judgment it is not a miscarriage of what is just and fair, it is an abortion. I cannot understand how it is this was accepted by CAL ALPA

 

[Boeing747Driver]

PBS sucks. It is like gambling in Vegas. You never know what will happen.

 

[737 Pylt]

PBS sucks. It is like gambling in Vegas. You never know what will happen.

I'll second that! However, if you're senior, it can work to your advantage!

737

 

[ATA73Pilot]

For those of you with Vacation policies that allow the removal of trips "touched" by vacation days - this will negate that little benefit.

PBS will build your schedule right up to the first day of vacation and start the first day back - this is where much of the savings come from for the company.

Picture a 2200 release time before vacation and an 0500 showtime the first day back.

Run as far away from PBS as you can. The only ones to truly benefit are the top 10%. Any item the company wants usually does not end up benefiting the pilots.

 

[pkober]

CAL's PBS is a great example of the negatives. Once I crossed the "splat line," life suddenly got really good. I had to cross the fifty percent mark on seniority. There wasn't a grey month either. It went from pure crap to exactly what I want. To me, a PBS system should be more equitable. As it stands here, it favors the senior pilots above the splat line at the cost of those below. The closer we get to summer flying scheds, the higher the splat line climbs.
There are other issues, but it depends on who you ask. Some guys feel they are getting shafted on their vacation time, others say it works out for them. It's too inconsistant.
A friend of mine who's senior to me bid to get Thanksgiving off. Since I was relatively junior, I didn't bother to and assumed that I'd work that day. I actually got the day off without trying and he ended up working it. The PBS gurus were quick to point fingers, but it just shouldn't have happened in my opinion.

I've been here since Oct 05 and am now at 57% in IAH, hopefully what you say will happen when I hit 50%.

Last Thanksgiving I got four days off over the holiday. I was at about 65%. I wasn't complaining, but that shows how screwed up it can get. Even though everyone above me asked for Thanksgiving off, the computer didn't like it and it gave it to a junior guy.

 

[ACWild]

I've been here since Oct 05 and am now at 57% in IAH, hopefully what you say will happen when I hit 50%.

It won't. The splat line moved higher for summer flying. Sorry. Not sure what the actual number is, but I've heard that it's going to go to 40%.
By the way, we were hired the same month.:beer:

 

[Bavarian Chef]

For those of you with Vacation policies that allow the removal of trips "touched" by vacation days - this will negate that little benefit.

PBS will build your schedule right up to the first day of vacation and start the first day back - this is where much of the savings come from for the company.

Picture a 2200 release time before vacation and an 0500 showtime the first day back.

Run as far away from PBS as you can. The only ones to truly benefit are the top 10%. Any item the company wants usually does not end up benefiting the pilots.

You don't bid vacation with PBS (unless you are really junior). I have good success with bidding even when I was junior due to FliCA (dropping, swapping, trading). Been at jb 19 months, bid 45-50% and life is good.

PBS is not an issues at jb. I'd say most are happy with it.

 

[ExAF]

Depends

Depends and I don't mean the diaper type. I've seen it work both ways. The devil is in the details and the constraints put on the system. I've seen it go from great where even the junior guys were getting most of what they wanted to disgusting where even the senior guys are bitching. It really depends on the "rules" agreed to by the company and the pilots and the constraints applied to the system.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

At my company, I've asked captains what was life like before PBS and "ALL" have said they got more days off with the old system than with PBS.

I was also told from the scheduling committee that PBS is a great system but our company has too many paramaters they set in it which makes it not work as well as it should be.

 

[Andy Neill]

Whenever I would jumpseat SkyWest, I would ALWAYS ask how PBS was treating them. The most common answers I got were "real good" or I got hosed this month but it was my fault". In other words, those that do best with the system are those how to work it best. I saw newhires get Christmas off the first year when the senior guys were flying it because they knew how to work it. They would bid to fly an undesirable trip that ended on the 24th and another that began on the 26th making them illigal to fly on Christmas.

 

[islandpirate]

PBS is an abortion. It will crush your QOL.

 

[get2flyin]

I'm a pretty JR FO and I like it (PBS that is, not being JR). My preferences are pretty simple. Start late and finish early because I hate to drive in rush hour and then maximize my credit for TAFB. I don't have a mistress in another city so all things considered I don't care too much where I overnight. I don't expect to get Christmas, etc. off so I don't bother. I do however utilize it to turn a 7 day vacations into a 14+ days off stretch or get my anniversary off to spend with my wife. You don't always get what you want but you can usually get what you need. That being said I just got hosed on my June bid because we're understaffed. Nothing a sick call can't fix. If you're senior, your going to get what you want regardless of the system. If you're junior, your going to get what's left. Low expectations mean low level of disappointment. Words to live by! That and nothing is ever so bad that it can't get worse. Good luck.

 

[Skywriter70]

Plain and simple, you really have to UNDERSTAND PBS more than any other system to have it work for you, and yes, seniority is a must especially with it. I is something that you must fully understand or you can really screw yourself, there are SOOOO many variables... Saves the company millions, however seems to be at the cost of pilot QOL.

 

[cessnapilot]

we have it a nwa. It was great... at first. The company got it fine tuned and when our contract changed, from top to bottom, the schedules sucked. There is no going back, so we are stuck with this. It is very efficient... so no ioe conflicts, vacation conflicts, training conflicts... so FEWER pilots needed for the same amount of flying... My recommendation... don't go down that road.

 

[Gnarloooo]

Bar none the most miserable piece of garbage ever. I have seen life before PBS and life after it...and post PBS is awful. I am even senior and get what I want most of the time...the problem is that it gives the company too much control. Most people that like it are either SUPER senior or too new to know the difference. It is a concession...do NOT treat it as anything else.

 

[vetrider]

I actually like PBS, but of course I don't have the slightest idea what a bid even is, or what it does, or what people are talking about when they talk about bidding. I must be a reserve or something.

I do know that if I want one single day off in a month, I simply bid 900 points for it off, and walla, I get it off. You just gotta know how to work it, thats all. Pumpin Iron, wide open.

 

[trachyte11]

It's worked somewhat for me. It doesn't work to well when the pairings/trips aren't any good to begin with, though.

 

[vetrider]

Maybe I'm just a simpleton, but when you're off, you're off. When you're working, you're working. Period.

I'd rather type in a paramater or two than wade through 500 pages of nothing. I've watched in amazement in the past as guys have spent every moment of a 4 day trip studying the afformentioned 500 pages of nothing. The hell of it is, those 4 days were probably only part of it. Whatever yanks a guys bobber I guess.

Bottom line, I'll take PBS, thank you.

 

[cessnapilot]

Maybe I'm just a simpleton, but when you're off, you're off. When you're working, you're working. Period.

I'd rather type in a paramater or two than wade through 500 pages of nothing. I've watched in amazement in the past as guys have spent every moment of a 4 day trip studying the afformentioned 500 pages of nothing. The hell of it is, those 4 days were probably only part of it. Whatever yanks a guys bobber I guess.

Bottom line, I'll take PBS, thank you.

You obviously don't understand the effects on staffing. It also depends on the company you work for. Our company has a new provision to reduce open time. The net effect is, if the #1 pilot bids a trip, and it needs that trip to fill another schedule, it can take it if needed. PBS is potentially the biggest QOL killer out there. Just realize that the way it operates is very dependent on your contract and how the company programs it.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

CP is on the mark. I've seen the good and bad side of the PBS. It all boils down to trip construction and how much you allow the company to adjust all the settings.

At NWA, PBS really worked like a charm. There were lots and lots of all different kinds of flying, which really played to PBS' strength. PBS works best when your monthly cap isn't too high, and plenty of open time is allowed to remain after bidding.

After the disaster that is the new contract, all the caps went through the roof, and the actual flying per day decreased, increasing the number of days at work. At the same time, the ding dongs allowed the company to goto a "zero open time" policy, which tried to eliminate any open time at the end of bidding, thus forcing the program to jam flying into people's schedules.

You can't really look at PBS and say "this sucks" or "it's great" without looking at the envrionment it was used in.

Nu

 

[Bavarian Chef]

This question is company specific it seems. PBS is implemented much differently at different places, as is open time, trading, swapping, pickup etc etc.

Curious to see where those most vehemently opposed to it actually work.

 

[Patriot328]

Curious to see where those most vehemently opposed to it actually work.

Take a swim across the Hudson and check out CAL on "How to NOT Impliment a PBS System"


I've talked to a few JB pilots and they seem to like their system.

Our system is too complicated, we're understaffed, and we have no control as to how many lines it will make (it will make a pre-determined amount of lines for any given equip/base/seat each month. What that essentially does is force it to build crap lines throughout in order to get that many total lines)...

PBS could be a good thing, or at least a neutral thing, but it has been a disaster here.

 

[Wino]

It all depends on Whose preferences are being awarded.

The Pilot's or the company's? Basically it is NOT worth the risk UNLESS the program is controlled by the pilots. Otherwise unless you have a 100 percent trustworthy management (and if you are an airline pilots and think your management is trust worthy you are either brand new or a fool) ******************** can happen behind the scenes.

its NOT transparent, the devil is in the details and the line pilots or the scheudling comittee rarely gets to see the details... Even if it starts out great a few keystrokes later and its an abortion.

Cheers
Wino