PBS Frontline expose' on regional airline industry

[buscap]

Rez,

My post stands on it's own. I wasn't replying to any prior posts, merely making an observation about Prater, which I still stand behind.

And to tie up my bite on the treble hook you cast out, I will say it needs to be all or nothing. Any little turd of scope in any form will leave the cancer to spread anew on another day.

As for me personally, being unlikely to be hired by virtue of a lacking education, please do not expect me to kick myself in the nuts and invite the demise of my employer. I would prefer to be somehow invited a seat at the table by virtue of my experience and record.

Lacking that, I shall choose to do all I can to mentor and develop those who have lead a different life than I and are able to move on to a level of the profession which mysteriously values an education system completely irrelevant to the blue collar nature of our chosen craft.

But, like the judge says, the world needs ditch diggers too.

 

[CX880]

Can someone in the know tell me if the captain that was on the paperwork in the video is an x-gstreamer. I saw the video and recognized the name, I may have taught him Basic Indoc at GIA. Just wondering if it was him? Go ahead with the GIA bashing, I am just wondering if I am connected to this aviation mishap as well. thanks

If I was you, I would have kept that piece of info to yourself...

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Having ALL aircraft and ALL pax on the mainline carrier's airplanes, with one payscale (with a flat minimum for the smalles aircraft), and no code shares is the solution. If you want a "code-share", to provide more feed and/or a larger footprint, you merge with that airline instead.

Is it easy? No.

Would it work. Yes.

cliff
NBO
PS-This applies to FedEx/UPS as well as DAL/CAL.
PPS-I am sometimes flying FedEx/UPS/DHL packages around. It is good for me, but not for the FedEx/UPS/DHL pilots.

 

[bahumba]

Its subtle but if you notice, Roger Cohen is telling the truth. No one is forcing you to work for Colgan. Another words, why would a company change their ways when people still show up for work? No one is forcing you to commute in the back of cargo planes. Average pay for a regional pilot is not 1200 dollars per month. Safety is the number one [/B]priority. Im not saying all of the above are OK but it is what it is. Roger Cohen is speaking on behalf of the company, what do you guys expect?

I'll have to disagree with you there! Everything at the regionals is based on the lowest acceptable cost model. The training is sub-standard compared to the majors - rest/duty is indeed pushed much more at the regionals. The constant pressure of "do it or take a walk" The flying public is being sold a lie when they fly on "regional affiliates" if they believe it is the same as "mainline' I'm sure the flame fest will follow - I just believe it can be better for everyone

 

[Abernathy]

It's too bad Roger Cohen's wife or gay lover (judging from the obvious daily tanning sessions) wasn't on the Colgan flight. I think he'd have held his tongue if this were the case.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It's too bad Roger Cohen's wife or gay lover (judging from the obvious daily tanning sessions) wasn't on the Colgan flight. I think he'd have held his tongue if this were the case.

Probably not.... he is doing what is done everyday in DC. Representing his organization. The threads of pilots appalled by Cohen simply show a disconnect for how it gets done in DC.

Not saying anyone should like it. But this stuff goes on everyday in DC. This is just high profile.

Pilots know how regionals treat them. Why would the Regionals representation, the RAA be any different. Do pilots actually expect Cohen to see things a pilots way? Does Cohen look bad on the video aside from the Fake Bake? If you were an investor in the regional airline industry, you'd probably be glad that Cohen was "representing...."

The real question is... do you want your group to be represented as well.

 

[mayoplane]

The point is that I think the wholly-owned's have drastically different experience levels than the contract carriers. So I hope PBS differentiates at least on that point. ...But, talk about pay and work rules all you like.

I disagree. Mesaba has a lot of experienced Capts and FOs, but also a lot of FOs with little experiences. I met bunch of low time FOs from Mesaba in the employee bus. 9E, doesnt have too many low time guys now because they havent hired for a while.

Comair is same as XJ. A lot of experienced guys, but also a few low timers because some of my friends got hired there with low experience.

It all depends on when they last hired pilots.

 

[buscap]

I'll have to disagree with you there! Everything at the regionals is based on the lowest acceptable cost model. The training is sub-standard compared to the majors - rest/duty is indeed pushed much more at the regionals. The constant pressure of "do it or take a walk" The flying public is being sold a lie when they fly on "regional affiliates" if they believe it is the same as "mainline' I'm sure the flame fest will follow - I just believe it can be better for everyone

As a pilot employed at a regional which does not suffer from any of the ailments outlined in your post or on the Frontline show, I would like to object!!!

The broad brush being used to paint the regionals is just as skewed as the one which appears to paint the majors as a bastion of godly pilot competence. And while such characterizations are a consequence of our news cycle, I am troubled that a program like Frontline made such an error.

Perhaps more troubling is the grinning agreement of mainline pilots with the generalizations of the program, most likely in hope of 'taking it back'. And while 'taking it back' is a goal even I classify as positive, I happen to be of the opinion that their idea of 'taking it back' means only taking the larger regional airframes, which will accomplish nothing and only allow the cancer to pop up again.

But back to the real issue about safety at the regionals. I would like to know if any mainline pilot reading this thinks the training and safety at ASA is substandard to the program they now work under at any mainline carrier?

I will hazard a guess that many prior ASA pilots would submit ASA is on par or perhaps even better than mainline.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As a pilot employed at a regional which does not suffer from any of the ailments outlined in your post or on the Frontline show, I would like to object!!!

Is your regional represented by the RAA? If so, then Cohen spoke for your regional.

The broad brush being used to paint the regionals is just as skewed as the one which appears to paint the majors as a bastion of godly pilot competence. And while such characterizations are a consequence of our news cycle, I am troubled that a program like Frontline made such an error.

I commend regional pilots for the safety record in that they do very well with the resources they have compared to MIL and legacy pilots.

Perhaps more troubling is the grinning agreement of mainline pilots with the generalizations of the program, most likely in hope of 'taking it back'. And while 'taking it back' is a goal even I classify as positive, I happen to be of the opinion that their idea of 'taking it back' means only taking the larger regional airframes, which will accomplish nothing and only allow the cancer to pop up again.

Do you exepct the mainline pilots to take all the reginonal aircraft in one event? Is a metered process more reasonable?

But back to the real issue about safety at the regionals. I would like to know if any mainline pilot reading this thinks the training and safety at ASA is substandard to the program they now work under at any mainline carrier?

I will hazard a guess that many prior ASA pilots would submit ASA is on par or perhaps even better than mainline.

It all comes down to money. Budgets. The reason why a Navy pilot with 300 hours can land a jet on a boat is the millions of dollars and time in training.

Delta has had 70 years to perfect its training with a budget larger than ASA. That is the whole point. Delta basically outsourced its training to ASA for cheaper costs. ASA has a good record. Whereas other regionals have not. Has Delta outsourced ASA's flying? Has ASA's training dept becomme too expensive?

That is what happend at CAL who outsourced to XJT who outsourced to Colgan.

Again.. outsourcing is the American Way. When the only lens in which to view is cost... safety becomes ancillary.

 

[samballs]

Probably not.... he is doing what is done everyday in DC. Representing his organization. The threads of pilots appalled by Cohen simply show a disconnect for how it gets done in DC.

Not saying anyone should like it. But this stuff goes on everyday in DC. This is just high profile.

Pilots know how regionals treat them. Why would the Regionals representation, the RAA be any different. Do pilots actually expect Cohen to see things a pilots way? Does Cohen look bad on the video aside from the Fake Bake? If you were an investor in the regional airline industry, you'd probably be glad that Cohen was "representing...."

The real question is... do you want your group to be represented as well.

Yeah, and don't tell me ALPA is doing a good job of it.