Pay rates for Lear 35 F/O??

[F/O]

Hi all

I'm going to be negotiating a bit with my new boss over Lear 35a wages. This is a part 91 corporate operation and I'm not typed. They are gone about 15 days a month (even though they don't fly many hours) and the F/O (me) is responsible for cleaning the plane and doing Jepps.....

Wondering if the Lear drivers out there can give me an idea what the going pay rates are for such a gig, both monthly for full timers and daily for contract guys....

Thanks..

 

[flyboy62]

F/O
I am definately not the one to give my two cents, seeing I am a newbie and all, but I was recently hired by a 135 outfit as f/o in the Lear 35. Obviously, by my numbers to the right, I have no time in turbins or type ratings of any sort, and I have been blessed with one of those "right place at the right time" sort of events.
With all of that in mind, the company offered me 22,500 salary, with a 5 day on and 5 day off schedule. Hope this helps.

Ron

 

[flyboy62]

What an idiot!! I meant my nubers to the LEFT!!!!!

 

[BoredToDeath]

Hey F/O,

I flew Lears from 99 to 01 in the right seat, and not typed. I'm sure the pay has had to go up since then. Also after meeting more people I had come to realize that I was still pretty low paid compaired to some others. But maybe this will give you a good starting point.

I avg'd 40 to 50 hours a month with close to 10 RONs.

My pay was set at $500.00 a week if I flew or not.
$150.00 per day each day that I flew or each day away from home. Any total flight time in one day exceeding 4 hours was $35.00 per hour extra on top of the $150.00.

If the amount of flying I did in one week did'nt go over the $500.00 dollar amount, I got the $500.00, and if I flew more than $500.00 worth of flying I got that.

The last year I worked there, my W-2 was in the high 30s. Oh and they tried to get me to do Jepps and come out and wash the plane twice a month, I told them that that would cost extra and they never brought it up again. Though I would keep the inside looking good before and after flights, but that was it.

You can also go to www.avcrew.com they may still have what the avg rates are, though they may have made that a section of the site that you have to pay for, I'm not too sure on that.

Good Luck and don't let them abuse ya.

 

[F/O]

Thx Bored

His initial offer was $300 a day based on a likely 10-15 days (it will start out on a contract basis, so up to $4500/month). After a month or two we will talk turkey about full time wages. He made it clear that the cleaning the ship and doing Jepps is part of the job, even while on contract. He's really sick of cleaning the plane himself and the other contract guys he's been using have NOT been doing any cleaning.

In any event I'm taking the job....beats the hell out of being furloughed.....

 

[Humblepilot]

Well as another of your furloughed brothers and sisters congrats on getting anyone to hire you. Very few are even willing to talk to us.

Cleaning the airplane and doing the Jepps is pretty standard. Being a former single pilot corporate pilot, it was just part of the job.

I don't think the offer he is making is that far off, but what about the slow months. I would ask him for a minimum guarantee of $3000 with every trip beyond the ten trips to be reimbursed at $300 per day. At least that way you would know the worse case how much money you would have coming in.

Also ask him if he expects you to fly for only that company or can you freelance. You might be able to pick up some outside flying on your slow months. Just my two cents.

Congrats,
Humble

 

[flydog]

Word to the wise

Dont fall for the daily pay scam

When the airplane goes down for a C check or any other type of maintenance its possible it may be down for 1-2 months or longer. What if business slows down and they dont need the airplane? This happened to me and I can tell you its no fun to sit at home for 2 months with very little or no income.

The reason they offer daily pay is to save money. They also want a full time pilot on a contract pilot's pay schedule to help them in the slow times.

Dont be their bank. Insist on at least a minimum guarantee based on 10 days a month or a salary + daily rate.

Salaries for Lear FOs run from the low 20s for low time guys to over 40k for experience Lear FOs

Our company structures FO pay at $1,000 per month plus $150 day. The mimimum guarantee is 15 days a month

Hpe it helps

 

[Timebuilder]

Here is what I accepted:

$2,000 per month salary, based on 18 duty days. With overtime, a possible 30k the first year. About one RON each week. All meals paid by Co whether a day trip or RON, with decent hotels for the stay. Island trips. No cleaning. The jepps are done with Q-service. Upgrade is eight to 16 months, depending on many factors. Good training captains, nice pax. Well maintained planes, 35s and a 55. Base is a class C airport with a good FBO. White shirt, tie, dark pants for every flight. No stipend to buy clothes.

It's a blessing, no doubt about it.

Let us know how it works out, and what you were able to get.

 

[AZaviator]

Hey Timebuilder, just curious, what kind of charter outfit do you work for? Is it a small outfit with only one plane, in a small town, or is it a larger company in a large city with several aircraft.

Just curious.

 

[Timebuilder]

It's a 135 outfit, with some 91 work for the planes' owners. Five Lear 35's, a 55, and two C-90's.

It's run by two guys with a lot of Lear and airline experience. No BS, a company check airman, 50/50 on the health insurance.

We're about 15 minutes west of Teterboro and White Plains. I'm avoiding posting the name here because we have no openings now. When we need pilots, I will be happy to help by posting the info.

Don't wake me up. I still think I'm dreaming....

 

[ultrarunner]

Don't forget to deduct approximately 30 percent from your daily rate in order for you to pay your taxes. This is becuase you are now self employeed, and the company you are contracting to is not taking any deductions at all.

A quick call to your tax guy will tell you what you need gross on a daily rate in order for you to "Net" the going rate.

 

[Timebuilder]

That reminds me.

A call to that tax guy should include a frank discussion of what and how much you can track as expenses for your "business" as an "independept contractor" on the schedule C form. Last year, I made squat as an instructor, but a whole bunch of stuff was deductable, and my tax liability was almost nothing. It's one of the few benefits to receiving a 1099 at the end of the year.

 

[sydeseet]

With your time and experience you should at least ask for a retainer. An earlier post mentioned a 10 trip guarantee with an "above and beyond" clause thrown in for busy periods. This is a standard operating procedure for many 135/91 operators, including the one I contract with, which protects you from slow periods, and guarantees them that you will be available a minimum number of days per month. I have seen people on a strictly per-day basis fly their tails off the first half of the month only to take the rest of the month off because they have made their money for the month. A signed retainer agreement protects both parties and adds some stability to the relationship. $300/day for someone with your experience, depending on the region, is a very reasonable amount for a Lear FO. I fly contract on the side and love it so try to keep this relationship well-mannered and you could have a long-term gig. Good Luck.