Pay for training

[BushwickBill]

B Bill,

All that stuff is in the manual. There are no decisions to make. Just follow the directions and call MX cointrol if you have any questions. No problems. It is a proceedure that is practaced in the sim every few years. All of that stuff is automated and drilled in practice. The problems come when they don't follow the directions and something bad happens like pinnacle.


Skyline

Well I cant say I really know any better. I still dont belive in PFT. I'm getting tons of SIC multi turbine and PIC single engine turbine right now. I never had to pay for the privilage. I'm not about to pay 25k to get SIC only time at some regional airline. Anyhow best of luck. Cant say I agree but you have many more years in the industry than I.

 

[Skyline]

What if?

B Bill,

What if it were possible for you to buy your dream job right now for 30K. Would you do it? SWA, UPS, Airforce one, whatever. You could pick your home base and you would be able to earn the cost back in a year or two. One time only offer, no changing your mind in a year or two. Today only. Would you do it?

Skyline

 

[Goose Egg]

However there is no need to become monks. You guys are all braced to be living in boxes and almost feel ashamed to try and make a good life for your selves. There seems to be a prevailing sense of martyrship going around.

Nobody is becoming a monk (certainly not me), no one is going to live in a box, and no one is becoming a martyr. I'm expecting to top out at about what my CPA father makes. I consider that a good living--we were pretty comfortable. I realize, however, that there is the potential to make more by shooting for the majors or sticking with a regional long enough to be a senior CRJ captain. But as I explained earlier, I'd much rather make less at a job that I found rewarding than more at a job I did not. It's my life, and that's the trade-off that I'm willing to make. I'm sorry if that makes you think that the youth of today falter in their reasoning. I didn't ask you for advice about life or flying.

You have to get out there in your 20's with a definite sense of purpose about getting that good airline job. By the time you start to wake up at 28 it is too late.

Whoah, whoah, whoah! "Sense of purpose?!" I thought that wasn't allowed!

Parenthetically, I did actually arrive at my "sense of purpose" around age 28.

Because in this business there are NO GUARANTEES!! Wake up folks, have you heard how well the top 5 are doing? How the salaries are, not to mention the benefits? Oh and if that were not enough, how many are on the street, again. This is not rocket science but a FACT of life in the US airline/aviation industry. Expect it. There is NO such thing as a stable company with maybe the sole exception of SWA. But even they are not infallible. (emphasis added)

Amen. Are the majors still the panacea in that light, Skyline? Don't misunderstand me, if some soul's desire is to fly for an airline, I'm all for it. If that is what one determines to be the thing that will make them the happiest in life, I say, "by all means." My only two contentions with airline flying are first, it's not for me, and second, that it is financially unwise to PFT.

There is no room for an EGO or for high moral standards in this career.

So, I am to understand that there are no egotistic pilots anywhere, correct? There is no room for them, so they must have been washed out at the early stages of their career, right?

And let us not confuse "ego" with "self-respect," and "high moral standards" with "piety."

-Goose

 

[Almerick07]

What if it were possible for you to buy your dream job right now for 30K. Would you do it? SWA, UPS, Airforce one, whatever. You could pick your home base and you would be able to earn the cost back in a year or two. One time only offer, no changing your mind in a year or two. Today only. Would you do it?

I'd do it in a heart beat....but you did say guaranteed right? Man sure glad I didnt sign up with Tabexpress in sunny florida flying on demand charter...talk about a dream job.

 

[Skyline]

Hey Goose

Goose,

Great for you man. You must have that one in a million dream jobs. The rest of us are still out there. I can't possibly guess what it is that you do. Perhaps you are a college professor. I don't know, but we all now know that you don't need to pay for training.

Skyline

 

[Goose Egg]

You must have that one in a million dream jobs.Perhaps you are a college professor...

Getting colder. And how could it be a dream job if I don't make $200K?

I don't know, but we all now know that you don't need to pay for training.

You know that I don't, but you don't know that nobody else does either, and therein lies the problem.

-Goose

 

[BushwickBill]

B Bill,

What if it were possible for you to buy your dream job right now for 30K. Would you do it? SWA, UPS, Airforce one, whatever. You could pick your home base and you would be able to earn the cost back in a year or two. One time only offer, no changing your mind in a year or two. Today only. Would you do it?

Skyline

Well if I were to pay 30k (which I cant afford to do) and wind up with a job at some winery flying a citation X making a 120k a year working 10 days a month. Sure. I guess that would be worth it.

I'm not sure what the point of that was.

The guys paying 25k a year to get 20k for the first year at ASA or XJET are insane. Unless the trust fund is paying for it. If so good for them but they wont make that money back for 3 years at least considering expenses. Not to mention the money the dropped on commercial multi instrument at some "academy"

 

[jackotron]

Tony C - That was one of the more civilized exchanges on PFT I have read, and there was actually some good information to be shared. In fact, it's one of the threads that will be useful to one who uses the Search function in the future.

Please reconsider your decision to close the thread - - it was a civilized discussion of a topic important to our industry.

Very well. I have reopened the thread...but no blood! We all know where these threads tend to go.

Jack

 

[Snakum]

Well if I were to pay 30k (which I cant afford to do) and wind up with a job at some winery flying a citation X making a 120k a year working 10 days a month. Sure. I guess that would be worth it.

But only if said winery made a good, spicy old vines Zinfandel and a peppery Syrah and I got two bottles of each for free each month. I certainly wouldn't PFT for run-of-the-mill Merlots or Cabs.

Minhommad

 

[polysciguy9]

Not knowing much about the history of PFT (aside from what I've read on flightinfo) I'm curious why there hasn't been a big push to confront members of congress about the potential dangers of having people pay for a required crew position. Perhaps a letter writing campaign to the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure would lead to changes in the FARs. Has this ever been attempted? Does anyone know?

 

[mayday1]

Not knowing much about the history of PFT (aside from what I've read on flightinfo) I'm curious why there hasn't been a big push to confront members of congress about the potential dangers of having people pay for a required crew position. Perhaps a letter writing campaign to the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure would lead to changes in the FARs. Has this ever been attempted? Does anyone know?

well, until someone can prove that safety is being compromised, i.e. by way of accidents, deaths, etc. you'll have a tough time getting the attention of anyone outside the aviation industry.

 

[polysciguy9]

Good point - but perhaps some preemptive action could be taken if enough people demanded it. Surely there's enough people on this site who hate PFT to start a significant letter writing campaign. All you need is one committee member to write the legislation. Call it the "KEEP PLANES FROM FALLING OUT OF THE SKY" bill ... I mean who's going to vote against that? Seems like the type of thing one of these unions should have done long ago.

 

[Goose Egg]

That was one of the more civilized exchanges on PFT I have read, and there was actually some good information to be shared. In fact, it's one of the threads that will be useful to one who uses the Search function in the future.

My thoughts exactly.

-Goose