Pay Comparison Misnomer

[Benhuntn]

I would imagine if someone worked at a cozey AF job then went to SWA it would be a shock to their systems. I don't blame them for going back. That paper work that is waiting for you when you finish a two week channel mission is the best part of flying. That 20-30 min. turn is a real killer and not for the faint of heart. I find that it takes me 7.5 minutes to set up for the next leg; that's if the captain doesn't run off and buy me lunch, which does slow me down since I can't pass up food. My QOL is not that good either. This month I work 14 day while many guys senior to me work only 12. Pay isn't good here either no matter what you hear. Last year at 2nd yr pay I was barely able to live on the 72,00 I had leftover after putting 18,000 in my 401k. Which by the way SWA only matched with a meager 7500. I am still logging my inst. and night time to get on with the majors.

 

[Big Slick]

I'm not sure if being an AETC line IP is a cushy AF job....

pedropcola and Benhuntn - ya'll seem like reasonable guys. Glad you like your job.

Like I said, I'm being the devil's advocate. I just know a lot of guys who work at SWA. Do they get paid well? Yes. Do they have securuty? As much as possible in this industry. Do they enjoy going to work? No.

 

[smfav8r]

I’d still prefer to fly a 777 to Nagoya than a 737 to Midland.

Have you every flown long international legs? It sucks!

It's all about money and maximizing time off.

I would be happy to fly an old DC9 a couple of 2 hour legs a day, 3 days a week for $200K+ a year. I would take that job over driving the 777 to Nagoya at 250K per year!

Oh yeah, that job no longer exists because the RJ pilots took all that flying!

And they pay the captains about 25% of the above salary, work 5 days a week and fly 5+ legs per day.

God this industry sucks!

 

[Huck]

This thread (and dozens like it here) are a circular firing squad.

To paraphrase William Buckley, what airline executives fear is a strong, united and universal national pilot culture. Which means they have little to fear.

 

[Benhuntn]

No big slick T-37 IP isn't a cushy job but trash hauler is.... I wouldn't go back to the AF for triple pay an 20 days off now that I have tasted freedom at SWA. I can't even imagine what those guys that did were thinking! But hopefully they were above me in seniority.

 

[skykid]

I would be happy to fly an old DC9 a couple of 2 hour legs a day, 3 days a week for $200K+ a year. I would take that job over driving the 777 to Nagoya at 250K per year!

Having the option to do either is what is nice. One aircraft type, flying domestic only for the next 20 years - not for me. To each his own.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Like I said, I'm being the devil's advocate. I just know a lot of guys who work at SWA. Do they get paid well? Yes. Do they have securuty? As much as possible in this industry. Do they enjoy going to work? No.

Lets see, this comes from a guy that admits he has posted under multiple identities on this forum alone and likes to stir the pot! I see you have a 737 type rating listed. Sour grapes maybe? We do tend to weed out your type of attitudes in the interview process!

The Pilots that fly for SWA are proud to be here. I would very much disagree that we have had guys leave after being hired and go back to the military. But even if they did theres other guys waiting in line that would appreciate a good job. We do work hard and IMO thats what keeps us competative. If you dont want to work for an aggressive fast paced expanding airline that likes to have fun, work hard, get paid well and have great time off and good quality of life I suggest you apply elsewhere. YMMV

 

[MemTrash]

I’m confused. I’ve read several posts on this forum and several articles saying that SWA now has the top pay in the industry. I guess I’m not good at math. According to Airline Pilot Central, AA and CAL pilots make more.

American
777 Captain with 12 years - $196 per hour
A Plan - 1.25%
B Plan - 11%
401k - No matching
Profit Sharing – Yes

Continental
777 Captain with 12 years - $186 per hour
A Plan – 2.20%
B Plan - Yes
401k - No
Profit Sharing – Stock Options

Southwest
737 Captain with 12 years - $190 per hour
A Plan – None
B Plan – None
401k – Match up to 7.3%
Profit Sharing – Yes

Yes SWA guys can buy stock at a discount and they make money from profit sharing. But, the really big bucks come from the A and B fund.

SWA pay is not the highest. Even after massive pay-cuts, AA and CAL pilots make more.

FedEx
Wide body Captain 12 year $201 ,15 year $206
A Plan - 2.00%
B Plan - 6%
401k - yes, though not much of a match

We have a bunch of 10 year wide body Captains and 4 to 5 year 727 Captains. How many 10 year 777 Captains do you thing CAL or AA have? I'd bet Zero, add to that most of our fleet are wide bodies.

Where is the comparison?

 

[smfav8r]

Having the option to do either is what is nice. One aircraft type, flying domestic only for the next 20 years - not for me. To each his own.

I do agree that flying one aircraft for the next 20 years would get a little boring, but I look and money and quality of life.

And I'd rather fly domestic and not be on the other side of the world if the pay and quality of life is in-line with an international job.

I've done the round the world thing, a Hilton is a Hilton, Tokyo or Tampa!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Big Slick,

I hear you. Some good points. Couple of questions.

Are the guys who dislike their SWA experience on military leave or did they actually "quit" SWA? There is, of course, a world of difference.

Is it possible these guys just hate the industry? Have they actually worked at another airline after concessions kicked in? 'cause most of the jobs in the industry have some downsides now. CAL sounds like it is most like the airline job of lore. SWA employees are VERY friendly to each other. If you have never worked in a nasty political environment (military or other) then you don't appreciate that very much.

With trip trade you can generally avoid too many legs per day. Unless you base yourself in Dallas or Houston. And these are senior domiciles. Go to other domiciles and the lines are much better. Lots of longer legs.

Most lines at SWA are 12-14 days a month working. 15 for reserve. Top half of the list includes many 3 4-day or 4 3-day lines. Block hrs on lines range from 75-90 month. It is not uncommon to block over 90-95 hours with 13-14 days of work. Or to block 70 hours with 12 if you want. Again, this is possible with trip trading with the company and other pilots. Not bragging, but you brought up the "work yourself to death" idea. Lets compare apples to apples here.
I don't need crew meals, so that doesn't bother me.

You're kidding yourself if you think I talk about SWA just to make you guys feel bad (or make myself feel good). But I do love a good comparison and debate. Keep the info and ideas coming.

 

[IslandDriver]

You guys talk of the busy schedule at SWA. It to me sounds a lot like the schedule I have at the commuters (yeah I used the "C" word...there are too many guys that want to make it more than it is..by using "Regionals" commuters is what we are...anyway that is for another time)

Any hoo...we all do 6 leg days in and out of major hubs with 20 minute turns...I wish more of us "commuters" could get that respect of working hard and land an interview at SWA.....nothing against military guys but my friend who is a LT. Col on the C-130 flew less than 200 hours last year while I flew 900...I am sure he is good but I bet if we both went to SWA tommorrow I would be more apt to keep the pace of the airline.

Don't mean to stir anything up but working hard when I go to work is alright with me!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

.

My favorite is when SWA pilots boast about being the most productive. Most productive = lowest quality of life. Bragging about the fact that you work harder than anyone else is bizarre at best. Scary at worst.

SWA is lowering the standards for the entire industry.

I will not refute your last statement. The question is, what are you going to do about it? Whine and complain or do something? Many folks are leaving the industry, applying to SWA (or other LCCs) or going cargo.

Which one is it for you?

 

[canyonblue]

One aircraft type, flying domestic only for the next 20 years - not for me.

Knowing Gary Kelly, I would bet that one or both of those statements will be false. I have 2 great kids and a wonderful wife, I don't need a bigger plane to make me feel important. I'd fly a Cessna if it belonged to Southwest.

 

[Purpledog]

More time off and more pay is what we used to strive for. Is this the bizarro parallel universe that I stumbled into?

 

[skykid]

Knowing Gary Kelly, I would bet that one or both of those statements will be false. I have 2 great kids and a wonderful wife, I don't need a bigger plane to make me feel important. I'd fly a Cessna if it belonged to Southwest.

Good for you, that's why I wrote "to each his own." Right now neither one of those statements is false. It has nothing to do with a bigger aircraft either.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey Big Slick...

18 posts, and you mention me in 3 of them. Like I said before "its hard out here being a pimp!". I've never been nasty before.

 

[Big Slick]

Here is my point - All of the SWA zealots on this forum haven't been around very long. They are so pumped full of the SWA koolaid that they honestly think everyone else in the world envies them. They are very full of themselves. I'm tired of hearing their bologna.

New Flash - Working at SWA ain't all that great. It's amazing that we have all lowered our standards so much in just five years.

 

[GoodTimes]

That's a rough go Big Slick. You'd be closing in on the left seat at SWA by now. You probably knew that. I went the other way....four years at UAL and coming up on the end of my first at SWA. Southwest is, by far, the best job I've ever had.

 

[Big Slick]

Glad to here that things are good for you at SWA. After all the crap at UAL the last few years, I can see how job security would be nice. Best of luck.

Like I said earlier, I started this flame-bait post because a lot of the SWA kool-aid drinkers on this forum are getting pretty annoying.

 

[GoodTimes]

I agree with the annoying part. A little humility goes a long way in this business.