Part 91 and supplement with 135

[Rick1128]

First of all there are some tax advantages to having the aircraft on a charter certificate. Plus some certification advantages. For a jet the maintenance requirements don't change. Certification advantages are RVSM, MNPS, NATS CEPAC, NORPAC, etc. Our aircraft is on a certificate and we average about one trip a year. Our boss charges extra top dollar and the operator only uses us as a last resort.

Also tell your future boss, that based on other operators' history, they tend to find all sorts of extra trips and uses for the aircraft. I flew for one owner that stated very clearly that we wouldn't fly over 500 hrs/yr. First year was 970 hours.

Doing extra flying can be a pain in the a$$, but depending on the trips can also be interesting if not fun.

 

[rice]

Excellent advice! Not having this clause in your WRITTEN agreement with the owner should be a deal breaker.

Speaking from experience......

Wish I'd thought about it BEFORE I signed up a few years ago. Oh well, live and learn!!!!! I have bigger issues with these guys now anyway. Anyone in this industry had three vacations cancelled in one year???????

 

[G100driver]

Do they re-imburse you for deposits and plan tickets?

Sorry, to hear that.

 

[100-1/2]

Clap,

The background to your question does not commensurate with the type ratings and 4000+ hours of flight time and lacks relevant detail as poiniently addressed along with the command worthy of my 4 year old to open your responding post.

With all this experience, why then would it not occur to you to position yourself into a "management" role over the (BOTH current and future) aircraft whereby you contract with your CURRENT 135 employer to operate the current and future aircraft for your new boss. Your New boss pays a flat monthly fee for his current and future aircraft to be on your Old Boss' Certificate. You take a cut of the management fee, a fixed salary from your new boss and bonuses for extra flying for your old company who compensates your new boss at an hourly rate plus surcharges for excessive use.

Well, there you go. Pissed me off and i practically started a company for you. Enjoy it while it lasts. It is a delicate ballet of dipomacy I doubt you can sustain, given your personality in this and other threads i have seen you post.

100-1/2

 

[Flybet3]

Do any of you guys out there use your airplane on a 135 certificate to supplement your 91 flying?

Here's my theory. An owner buys an airplane and flys it 100-150 hours per year. They want to put more hours on it in a year, but they don't have the need to fly anymore, so they decide to fly it 8-10 hours per month Part 135.

In my current job, we do alot of Sentient trips. They treat us well and we have a great relationship with them. If the owner above buys an airplane, does Sentient have a Part 135 certificate you could put the airplane on and fly for them 3 or 4 days per month to get that additional 8-10 hours of flying per month?

I think in the next 3-5 years, the said owner would utilize the airplane 200-250 hours per year and not have to worry about the additional Part 135 flying, but in the meantime it might be convenient.

Any ideas?

Well, say good buy to your personal life chump. Unless you set some ground rules from the beginning like some of these guys said. Then you are in for a surprise. You wont realy off set much costs. The owner will ask for 10 then that wont be enough. Some months might be very slow, so you'll have to stay available as much as you can. My last job we did about 25 to 30 hours (well we tried) and flew the owner only like 5 hours in a month. i remember two months we didnt see him at all. So it was all charter. One of those months we only flew like 18 hours and had only one day off. Why? b/c we had to keep the airplane available for charter. I personally could've not given two sh*ts about it, my attitude was well, even if we did 20 or 30 hours of charter the owner was never really happy anyways. But unless your flying partner feels the same way you do, then you wont have any real days off and you are at the mercy of the pager/cell phone. Good luck chump

 

[Flybet3]

Wish I'd thought about it BEFORE I signed up a few years ago. Oh well, live and learn!!!!! I have bigger issues with these guys now anyway. Anyone in this industry had three vacations cancelled in one year???????

I had the owners secretary call me and say " Hey B, Mr. Boss was just told that your captain is going to take his vacation in May and he wants you to take it as well."

That's when I said, F*CK THAT, and F*CK THIS JOBS...I'M OUT!!
The owner was a pretty nice guy overall, his wife was sweet but he was pretty unreasonable and was a "pilot" him self...so you know, he "knew his stuff"

 

[g159av8tor]

I understand flying 135 on top of 91 sucks. I can appreciate that, believe me. We are in a part of the country where its inconvenient for Sentient to use us too much. And on top of that, the owner wouldn't want anymore than 10 hours per month because it would be too hard on the plane.

He doesn't need extra flying to offset the cost of ownership, but would like to keep the airplane a little more busy than 10-15 hours per month that he'd use it.

Anyway, thanks for the opinions.

I wouldn't do it if I were to fly that airplane. By trying to look like a hero for your friend, you just gonna shoot yourself in the foot.

Tailwinds...

 

[jeb]

First off I think you are in a dream world if you think you will only fly 8 to 10 hours additional a month. Have you considered the extra cost of flying on a 135 certificate. First there is additional insurance and training cost for the crew. Don't forget management fees. They don't do this for free. We did this along time ago with a well known company we had to fly about six hours to break even. I don't know what type aircraft you are flying but in a jet you have to fly trips that will produce income. I had the authority to accept or decline trips. We seemed to get offered trips that would be less than two hours for the day and we might sit six hours or longer. We did have a min guarantee of two hours. We did about 100 -125 per year. Bottom line the wear and tear on the airplane and the airplane wasn't available the owner gave it up. After all said and done I believe the company made around 25,000 dollars profit on the charter end. For the crew we did get treated okay, but the charter company did try to back door us (crew) and crew the airplane themselves and save the owner money. Care to take a guess what company that was?

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Clap,

The background to your question does not commensurate with the type ratings and 4000+ hours of flight time and lacks relevant detail as poiniently addressed along with the command worthy of my 4 year old to open your responding post. This is a huge run-on sentence and doesn't make much sense.

With all this experience, why then would it not occur to you to position yourself into a "management" role over the (BOTH current and future) aircraft whereby you contract with your CURRENT 135 employer to operate the current and future aircraft for your new boss. Your New boss pays a flat monthly fee for his current and future aircraft to be on your Old Boss' Certificate. You take a cut of the management fee, a fixed salary from your new boss and bonuses for extra flying for your old company who compensates your new boss at an hourly rate plus surcharges for excessive use. Pretty easy answer, because the guy buying the airplane won't deal with my current employer. Current employer burned him a few years ago and they don't deal with eachother.

Well, there you go. Pissed me off and i practically started a company for you. Enjoy it while it lasts. It is a delicate ballet of dipomacy I doubt you can sustain, given your personality in this and other threads i have seen you post. If this pisses you off, then you need to take some time off, enjoy the weekend, and have a few coldies. And what about my personality? A guy asks a fairly simple question and I get this? Seems I'm not the one with the personality disorder.

100-1/2

Whew, good ol' 100-1/2 and FlyBet3 get a little emotional about the topic at hand. At any rate, there is a solution in the works. The whole thing was a hypothetical and apparently a few folks got angry about it. For those of you who gave rational replies, thanks. For 100-1/2 and Bet3, you fellas need to get l.a.i.d. more often. Relax, life is too short.

 

[Flybet3]

Whew, good ol' 100-1/2 and FlyBet3 get a little emotional about the topic at hand. At any rate, there is a solution in the works. The whole thing was a hypothetical and apparently a few folks got angry about it. For those of you who gave rational replies, thanks. For 100-1/2 and Bet3, you fellas need to get l.a.i.d. more often. Relax, life is too short.

Dude, personally I'm not getting emotional. I'm just saying what happened to me and to many of my flying pals. I have to agree with one of the guys, there is a tax benefit to all of this. But unless you have a down to earth owner, that really thinks that 8 to 10 hours will be all. Then, heck...sounds good to me. But 10 hours turn into 20, 20 into 30 and so on. Oh and by the way, I'm already getting more than enough pu$$y, anymore and I wont sleep.....gotta give mr. Snake some rest ya know?

 

[VA AV8R]

I don't post that often around here but I have to disagree with the notion that flying 135 and 91 "Sucks". I think it really depends on your arrangement, which as people have said, should really be nailed down.

I work for an outfit with five aircraft (all PC-12's). We manage them for the owners, and offer them to the 'public' when not in use by the owners. I fly and average of around 45 hours per month, with usually no more than six to seven overnights tops. According to my records, I average 14 days off per month. The lowest number of days off I've had is 10.

Two of the owners are awesome to fly for, and two are... not Some of our 135 clients are great and others should be left in the middle of the desert for dead. Such is life.

We're paid a base salary + an hourly and I make 5K-7K above the "average" salary numbers for the airplane. Medical/Dental is fully paid for - no deductible out of my pocket (only copays).

I've worked for straight 91 outfits that were very abusive; we adhere to 135 regulations whether the flight is 91 or 135. There is a Part 91 op located on the field with us flying a CE650 and they have three owners, three pilots. Those guys work all the time. We have our moments to be sure, but they only last for a couple of weeks at a time before things settle down to a much more tolerable average of 3.5-4 days per week of work.

As well all know the best arrangement is a Part 91 owner who respects their flight crew and sees the aircraft as an asset, not a revenue generating tool.

 

[Spooky 2]

First off I think you are in a dream world if you think you will only fly 8 to 10 hours additional a month. Have you considered the extra cost of flying on a 135 certificate. First there is additional insurance and training cost for the crew. Don't forget management fees. They don't do this for free. We did this along time ago with a well known company we had to fly about six hours to break even. I don't know what type aircraft you are flying but in a jet you have to fly trips that will produce income. I had the authority to accept or decline trips. We seemed to get offered trips that would be less than two hours for the day and we might sit six hours or longer. We did have a min guarantee of two hours. We did about 100 -125 per year. Bottom line the wear and tear on the airplane and the airplane wasn't available the owner gave it up. After all said and done I believe the company made around 25,000 dollars profit on the charter end. For the crew we did get treated okay, but the charter company did try to back door us (crew) and crew the airplane themselves and save the owner money. Care to take a guess what company that was?

Jeb, yes I would like to know the name of that company.

 

[h25b]

There's nothing wrong with letting us know exactly who that was... Please...