Part 121 Max DUTY TIME... To be clear?

[flight-crew]

I just want to be 100% clear on this.

I looked through the whole 121 FARs and found nothing that specifically gave a max amount of time on duty. I did find that you had to have at least 8 hours rest within a 24-hr period. So what that says in essence is: Max Duty day = 16 hrs. Correct?

Now, let's say you have reduced rest (you only got 8 hrs. of rest), then you would need 10 hrs. the next day. Does that change your DUTY TIME in any way? I say no... but I'm not sure.

So again, my overall question is- For FAR 121 flying, is your max DUTY DAY (i.e.- time from which you report to release), always 16 hours, or does it change?


..... And my second question is- If you read FAR 121.471 (B) 2 and 3..... it says "8 or more but less than 9 hours of scheduled flight time" and "9 or more hours of scheduled flight time." The question I have here is how can you have more than 8 hours of SCHEDULED flight time??? Isn't this illegal. I know you can have more than 8 hours of ACTUAL flight time (like weather delays). But this says "SCHEDULED"???

 

[MetroSheriff]

16 hours...period.


A little info on the now infamous "Whitlow Letter"

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, in a unanimous, three-judge panel decision, has lifted a stay against FAA enforcement of the 16-hour maximum domestic duty day rule. On Nov. 20, 2000, the Federal Aviation Administration had moved to close a regulatory loophole that some airlines used to keep pilots on duty indefinitely. The FAA’s Deputy Chief Counsel interpreted 14 CFR 121.471(b), clarifying that 16 hours is the maximum time a pilot can remain on duty, regardless of delays caused by weather, air traffic control, or maintenance (the “Whitlow letter”).



The Air Transport Association (ATA) and the Regional Airline Association (RAA) moved to block the FAA Deputy Chief Counsel’s interpretation by filing suit in January 2001. The Court of Appeals has now ruled that the airlines’ suit was without merit and has removed the stay against FAA enforcement of the rule. The 16-hour rule is now in effect and pilots flying domestic schedules should not fly if doing so would cause them to exceed 16 hours on duty. Both pilots and air carriers have a regulatory duty not to violate the rule. ATA and RAA have until July 15, 2002, to seek reconsideration of the panel decision by the full U.S. Court of Appeals, or review by the U.S. Supreme Court. We will keep you advised of additional developments.



In the meantime, the FAA plans to move ahead on training its inspectors and enforcing the rule in the near future.



The current domestic FAA regulation limits scheduled flight time to a maximum of 8 hours in a single duty period, with an exception allowing the 8-hour limitation to be exceeded "due to circumstances beyond the control of the carrier." However, another part of the regulation requires pilots to "look back" after every arrival and find at least an 8-hour scheduled rest period during the previous 24 hours.



In the FAA interpretation that the Court of Appeals has just held valid, FAA Deputy Chief Counsel James Whitlow wrote, "If, when using the actual expected flight time [for a segment], the carrier cannot find at least 8 hours of look-back rest upon arrival, then the flight may not depart [on that segment]."

With regard to delays, the interpretation states, "If, when this information is factored in, it is known or should be known that arrival based upon the actual expected flight time will not result in at least 8 hours of look-back rest, then the flight may not leave the gate. If the flight is away from the gate, but not yet in the air, then the flight may not take off." The ruling therefore requires pilots and airlines to continuously monitor delays, particularly during lengthy duty periods, to ensure that a flight will not violate the rest requirements under the FAA regulations.

Additional information is available on the ALPA website, under the quick link Combating Pilot Fatigue. The Court’s Opinion can be found at http://www.alpa.org/internet/projects/ftdt/faacorr/ATA_v_FAA-Opinion of Court.pdf and the Pilot’s Guide to the Domestic FAR maximum duty day is available at http://www.alpa.org/internet/projects/ftdt/backgr/farmaxduty.pdf Combating Pilot Fatigue

Questions about specific situations should be directed to Jay Wells or Jim Johnson in the Legal Department.

Plenty of additional info is available in the public areas at www.alpa.org and www.faa.gov.

 

[tintube]

Max duty time you ever can do is 16hrs.( that will give you 8 hrs / REDUCED rest ) Even if you are delayed on the ground w/ engine started / taxing, you must be able ( based on scedueled flight time ) that you can complete the flight within the 16 hrs duty time. Delays airborne is the only exemption.

You can fly more than 8 hrs in one day ( 24hrs ) You can be scedueled to fly more than 8 hrs in one day. You can not be SCEDUELED for more than 8hrs flight between REST-PERIODS. (I.E. you might fly or be scedueled 4 hrs in the morning and 5 hrs in the evening but the required restperiod must be given between the flights.)
The required rest req depend on how much will be flown within a 24 hrs period: look on the time of completion of each leg and look back 24 hrs from that time. The rest required depends on the less than 8, more than 8 but less than 9 or more than 9hrs flight time.

Remember that if you are given reduced rest, the comp rest must be started within 24 hrs of the time the reduced rest started.

 

[checkessential]

The FAA doesn't care if you exceed the 8 scheduled hours of block time in extenuating circumstances. However, you must abandon the flight at any point prior to takeoff if you will exceed the 16 hour rule- "looking back" from your anticipated duty-out.


Please correct me if I'm wrong.....

 

[pilotyip]

fly 12 hours in 20 hr period legal

You can fly 4 hours, take eight hours rest, and then be legal for another 8 hours in the next, in the next eight hours.

 

[chperplt]

Was told by my CP that the FAA is sending out to all air carriers a new interpretation on the "Legal to start, legal to finish" rule. Apparently this interpretation is more pilot and safety friendly.

 

[Timebuilder]

Is this action a result of the Little Rock crash, where pilot fatigue was seen as a factor?

 

[Viking]

Duty time?

Now the question is what is the definition of duty time? Lets say you have a 12 hour reserve and on the 12th hour they call you for a trip. Do you have 16 hours from that point or 4 hours?

The company I work for says you can work the 16 hours because you weren't on duty while sitting reserves. However, while sitting reserves you are not "off duty" because you can't drink a beer.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Duty time?

Now the question is what is the definition of duty time? Lets say you have a 12 hour reserve and on the 12th hour they call you for a trip. Do you have 16 hours from that point or 4 hours?

The company I work for says you can work the 16 hours because you weren't on duty while sitting reserves. However, while sitting reserves you are not "off duty" because you can't drink a beer.

If you are on reserve, you are not considered to be "on duty", however the FAA has interpreted you to have a "present responsibility for duty". More importantly, you are not considered to be "on rest" for purposes of the lookback provisions.

Here is an ALPA Q&A on the Reserve Rest provisions:

These questions and answers are based upon the Federal Aviation Regulations. Collective Bargaining Agreements may be more restrictive than the Regulations.

1. Is a pilot who is assigned reserve status required to be given rest?

Yes. If a pilot on reserve status is to be given a flight assignment, he/she must be able to look back 24 hours at the completion of each segment of the flight assignment and have had, at a minimum, 9 hours of continuous rest in the 24-hour period. The rest period must be pre-assigned; it is not possible to retroactively designate a rest period. Alternatively, a carrier may keep a pilot on call for the entire 24-hour period providing that if the pilot is given a flight assignment, he must be given the required rest (9 hours reducible to 8 hours) prior to reporting for the assignment.

2. Can the 9 hours of required rest be reduced?

Yes. The 9 hours can be reduced to 8 hours providing a compensatory rest is given. The compensatory rest is 10 hours if the flight time is less than 8 hours; 11 hours if the flight time is less than 9 hours; and 12 hours if the flight time is more than 9 hours. The compensatory rest must begin no later than 24 hours from the beginning of the reduced rest.

3. How does the FAA define rest?

The FAA has consistently interpreted "rest" to mean a continuous period of time during which the flight crewmember is free from all restraint by a certificate holder. This includes freedom from work and freedom from responsibility for work should the occasion arise. Thus, a crewmember who was required to be near a phone, carry a beeper, or maintain contact by computer so that he would be available should the carrier need to notify him/her of a reassignment would not be on rest. However, there would be no rest violation where an air carrier does not impose any requirements on the crewmember during the rest period, and the crewmember just happens to answer the phone (or otherwise contact the employer) when the air carrier calls to notify him/her of a reassignment that will begin after the completion of his/her rest.

4. If a reserve or any pilot is on an assigned rest period can the air carrier require the pilot to respond to the telephone pager or beeper?

No. If the air carrier requires a pilot to respond to its call, that is a present responsibility for duty and is not rest.

5. Can an air carrier require a pilot to call the air carrier when he is on an assigned rest period?

No. To require a pilot to call the air carrier wold be a present responsibility for duty and not rest.

6. Can a pilot voluntarily accept a contact from the air carrier when he/she is on an assigned rest period?

Yes. A carrier can call a pilot once during the assigned rest period and it will not interrupt the rest period. If the pilot elects to answer the call, a flight duty assignment can be given.

7. Can a pilot be given advance notice of a flight assignment?

Yes. A pilot can be placed on "long call" reserve for an entire 24-hour period. However, before he/she can accept a flight assignment, the pilot must be placed on rest for at least 9 hours reducible to 8 hours with compensatory rest prior to the flight assignment.

8. Can the air carrier call a pilot and extend his/her rest period?

Yes. For example, you are not required to be telephone available until 0001 following your rest. In this case, the Company would have to contact you before your rest starts, to extend your rest period. However it could contact you during your rest period and if you answered, it could extend your rest period.

9. Does the reserve rest requirement apply to international or supplemental operations?

No.

10. What action should a pilot take if he believes he is too fatigued to fly?

The pilot should inform the air carrier of his condition and decline to fly. The FAA has consistently said that if a crewmember operates an aircraft with insufficient rest, the pilot could be charged with a careless and reckless violation, as provided by FAR 91.13. The FAA has also stated that the "lack of rest of the pilot is certainly a circumstance which could endanger others, and it is not necessary that the situation devolve into actual endangerment for there to be a violation of FAR 91.13."

11. What does the FAA advise a reserve crewmember to do if he/she is scheduled for flight duty and he/she has not received an appropriate prospective rest period as required by FAR 121.471(b)?

First, the reserve crewmember must determine whether all of the elements of §121.471, including the reduced rest provisions in §121.471(c), have been met. Second, if §121.471(c) cannot be used, you are hereby advised that §122.471(b) specifically prohibits a flight crewmember from accepting an assignment that violates this provision. In the event any flight crewmember finds himself/herself scheduled in violation of §121.471, he/she should, at a minimum, advise the appropriate person at the air carrier. Depending on the air carrier’s protocol, this may be the Chief Pilot, the Director of Operations or the Director of Safety. Additionally, a pilot always has a duty under §91.13(a) to notify the certificate holder when he/she is too fatigued to fly.

12. Must a pilot assigned reserve status be given 24 hours free of duty every 7 days?

The 24 hours free of duty every 7 days is also a lookback to determine compliance. Therefore, if a pilot is scheduled for flight time, the pilot should look back 7 days and if there has not been a 24-hour period free of all duty or responsibility for duty, then the pilot cannot accept the assignment.

13. Can a pilot be assigned reserve status for more than six consecutive days?

Yes, but in this circumstance, before the pilot can accept a flight assignment, he/she must be given 24 hours free of all duty.

14. A pilot has just completed a designated rest period. Can the Company now call him and give him another designated rest period that starts very shortly after his previous rest period ended?

Yes. While this may not be desirable from a physiological point of view, for the purposes of the 24 look back test it satisfies the rule.

15. Can the Company move up a previously designated rest period? (E.g., a pilot has a designated rest period from 2400 to 0900 and a trip opens up with a check in time of 0800 – can this pilot’s rest period now be changed from 2300 to 0800?)

Yes. Actually, in the example cited above, there are two possible solutions. If the Company contacts the pilot before 2300, the rest period could be moved up in order to have the pilot available for check in at 0800. The second solution would be for the Company to call during his designated rest period and if the pilot answered, his rest period could be reduced to 8 hours in order to have him available for the 0800 check in.

16. A pilot is assigned reserve status for a mixed line (domestic and international) of flying. Can he be on 24-hour call and required to answer the phone and accept a flight assignment?

A pilot can be placed on call for a 24-hour period. He can be required to answer the phone and can accept an international flight assignment. However, if the assignment is for a domestic flight, the pilot must be placed on rest for 9 hours that can be reduced to 8 hours before he can report for the assignment. During the rest period the pilot has no obligation to answer the phone.

For further information, check the ALPA public areas under "Preventing Pilot Fatigue":

http://www.alpa.org/internet/projects/ftdt/faacorr/reserve_rest_qa.html


FLY SAFE!!!

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Duty time?

The company I work for says you can work the 16 hours because you weren't on duty while sitting reserves. However, while sitting reserves you are not "off duty" because you can't drink a beer.

After a diligent search, I can't seem to fine a reference to the FAA's criteria including "beer drinking" as a determining factor as to duty status.

I think weve should demand they file an NPRM and get started on adding it to the regs...