Pan Am C152 In Fatal Crash - Any Info?

[MJPilot]

Honestly, I would feel much more comfortable in the older 172s teaching spins. Even the new ones felt better than the 152, which seemed very "nervous" in a spin.

I have over 4000 hours as a CFI, but none of my students ever got anywhere close to an unintentional spin.

Most Twins are not approved for spins.

 

[BRIGADEAVIATOR]

I have had better luck spinning a 152 than a 172. With a 172 they are so stable, you litterally have to cross control the aircraft before you can spin it, and to recover just let go of the controls and it will bring it back to normal.

 

[Andrew_VT]

Covering their eyes? come on! this is in a spin you are going to do this and wait for them to react?...they're still going to have one hand on the controls. I make it clear to all my students if they freeze up and dont let go when i tell them I WILL hurt them. I've always told myself i will pull on their earlobe hard, but if it came down to it I'm afraid i might find myself doing something worse like going for their adams apple or eyes. What i dont want to do is be reserved when the airpeed needle is approaching red-line fast. In that situation I'm not just going to cover their eyes, that sounds like bringing a BB gun to a standoff.

 

[Wiggums]

Covering their eyes? come on! this is in a spin you are going to do this and wait for them to react?...they're still going to have one hand on the controls. I make it clear to all my students if they freeze up and dont let go when i tell them I WILL hurt them. I've always told myself i will pull on their earlobe hard, but if it came down to it I'm afraid i might find myself doing something worse like going for their adams apple or eyes. What i dont want to do is be reserved when the airpeed needle is approaching red-line fast. In that situation I'm not just going to cover their eyes, that sounds like bringing a BB gun to a standoff.

You know how when your doctor taps your knee and you kick your leg? Well it's the same deal with covering the eyes.

For most animals that have eyes there are involuntary reflexes that occur when the eyes are threatened. First is to close the eyelids. Then with humans it is to remove the obstruction. Your student won't think, it's a very strong reflex.

You think you are going to do battle with someone in a 152 over the controls when they are hopped up on ad reline? Good luck with that one. Plus now you don't have to threaten bodily harm before the student's first lesson. They are more likely to injure you by freezing on a landing then during a spin

 

[acaTerry]

I make it clear to all my students if they freeze up and dont let go when i tell them I WILL hurt them.

I find this to be a deterrent to students who "would have" flown with you. I found that occaisonal, unnanounced / for-no-reason-at-all "My airplane" calls, even during maneuvers trained them well to let go as soon as they heard it. Stimulus...response...stimulus...response. Your method seems rather harsh and confrontational for a student pilot who may already be a little apprehensive.

 

[Ill Mitch]

Yesterday I was undergoing CFI training in a Champ, and my instructor showed me how to karate chop the student in the neck. (Something he has had to do in the past)

When you do it, you gotta say "Judo Chop!", like Austin Powers.

I had a student in a Citabria that froze on the controls during the recovery from a power off stall, which was weird cuz it was only the millionth time we have done them.

I said the "My airplane" thing a few times, grabbed the stick and tried to gently nudge it back, hoping he would get the hint. Meantime, he is straight-armed on the control, the engine is running full power, and the nose is going over pretty fast.
Hmm, I think. I finally clipped him in the back of the head, not hard enough to do damage, but hard enough to sting. He took his right hand off the stick to rub the back of his head.

 

[acaTerry]

When you do it, you gotta say "Judo Chop!", like Austin Powers.

No NO NO! Its ju- DO CHOPP! Don't forget the emphasis on the last syllabil (ashamed of myself for spelling) or they'll never take you seriously. Personally, I think you work for Dr. Evil.
On a more serious note, I think there are better ways than chopping a throat (even though primary instructing makes it tempting!). Try grasping the skin between his nostrils and pulling down...OUCH. Painful, but harmless.

 

[Ill Mitch]

No NO NO! Its ju- DO CHOPP! Don't forget the emphasis on the last syllabil (ashamed of myself for spelling) or they'll never take you seriously. Personally, I think you work for Dr. Evil.
On a more serious note, I think there are better ways than chopping a throat (even though primary instructing makes it tempting!). Try grasping the skin between his nostrils and pulling down...OUCH. Painful, but harmless.

Actually, Dr. Evil works for me. I'm the guy behind the scenes pulling the strings, mmm-hmm, know what I be saying?

I like the nostril thing. You could also do a wet william on him or her, but then you would get ear wax on your finger. But, it would wake them up.

 

[Da Vinci]

i have a very black/white opinion on this...no gray. studen 'freezes' once, VERY serious conversation w/ instructor and chief pilot. second time...student is expelled.

now...in this age of money for the school and hours for the CFI, who on earth would kick out a perfectly good paying warm body...or for that matter a warm body who's giving a CFI hours.

sad, and i'm not writting flame bait here...but i knew of an older guy who was in my school way back and took over 150 hours to get his instrument - only a week later, in IMC, at the training airport he went missed 10? times before tower requested if he had fuel available he divert to ATL...he advised he had enough fuel and crashed several miles from ATL. now...why was that studen allowed to fly IMC?

freezing at the controls just isn't a reaction that a pilot should ever have...just my opinion.

my heart goes out to both pilots. personally i hate spins...did them...got sick and hope i'll never have to do them again.