Pan Am C152 In Fatal Crash - Any Info?

[I.P. Freley]

I've never met a student at the controls who froze to the point that I couldn't merely "take the controls."

Just because you haven't met one doesn't mean they exist. I had a student once who very nearly crashed us by freezing on the controls in a much-too-high flare, and I couldn't overpower him (I was a semi-regular gym-goer at the time, but this guy was a bodybuilder and could've lifted the whole darned airplane). I had my left arm cocked and was about to pound him in the neck when he suddenly just let go of the yoke... Completely. From full aft on the controls to just letting go, with a stall warning going off, at fifty feet. THAT was fun.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Hey about just putting your hand over their eyes, when they reach for them then you have the plane. Abusing is not the way. If you choose to b abusive buy a stun gun it works better!
jk!

 

[tweeter125]

I have to agree, the hand over the eyes works better than anything else.

 

[MJPilot]

I have done Spin training in older and newer 172s.. At first, I was not comfortable to do so, but some experienced pilots showed me how to spin the 152.

So 1 day, I did some spins with a student that wanted to get the feeling of them. This was a 1980 152, tanks half full, I was 180lbs, student about 160.


First couple of spins went well. We climbed up to 5700 feet to do them, over the Gulf of Mexico.

On the last spin we did, the plane got out of control. I entered the spin with a full stall, partial power, and then full rudder deflection. The C152 tumbled over, but then suddenly gained airspeed real quickly. We went OVER the redline to apprx. 200 kts indicated.

At that point, I thought that was it and some parts are about to fly off. Fortunately, we recovered at around 1200 feet, doing a slow pullback, myself being scared of overstressing the airframe.

I never really understood how the aircraft could accelerate to over 200kts in a few seconds.

I searched the internet and found that some 152 had gotten out of control in a similar way, probably being a C.G. problem.

If I ever have such students again, I gladly will send them over to some aerobatic instructor.

 

[Dutch]

I can't take credit for the idea of covering the eyes. A very senior (20+ years) IP told me that during CFI training.

My second favorite was the guy who didn't respond to my instructions because he had fallen asleep.

 

[twighead]

Who was killed? I went to PAIFA years ago. PM me with details.

http://localsearch.azcentral.com/sp?keywords=pan+am+crash

 

[PC12Cowboy]

Hmm I think WE have missed a important part.........
We lost a skilled Instructor and fellow pilot and a perspective pilot as well!
GOD SPEED to those and Blessing to their families
PC12

 

[handlesaregay]

Hmm I think WE have missed a important part.........
We lost a skilled Instructor and fellow pilot and a perspective pilot as well!
GOD SPEED to those and Blessing to their families
PC12

Isn't it comforting to know that when you die there will be a thread written about you at flightinfo.com?

 

[D.sanchez]

I have done Spin training in older and newer 172s.. At first, I was not comfortable to do so, but some experienced pilots showed me how to spin the 152.

So 1 day, I did some spins with a student that wanted to get the feeling of them. This was a 1980 152, tanks half full, I was 180lbs, student about 160.


First couple of spins went well. We climbed up to 5700 feet to do them, over the Gulf of Mexico.

On the last spin we did, the plane got out of control. I entered the spin with a full stall, partial power, and then full rudder deflection. The C152 tumbled over, but then suddenly gained airspeed real quickly. We went OVER the redline to apprx. 200 kts indicated.

At that point, I thought that was it and some parts are about to fly off. Fortunately, we recovered at around 1200 feet, doing a slow pullback, myself being scared of overstressing the airframe.

I never really understood how the aircraft could accelerate to over 200kts in a few seconds.

I searched the internet and found that some 152 had gotten out of control in a similar way, probably being a C.G. problem.

If I ever have such students again, I gladly will send them over to some aerobatic instructor.

An aircraft isn't spinning if it's going over 200 knots.....a spin condition requires the a/c be in a stall... Pretty scarry story none-the-less.

 

[MJPilot]

aircraft not spinning ...

yeah, I know that. I would say it was entering a spin initially, but somehow developped into a spiral.

Actually, I wanted to show the student that the airspeed is very low during a spin. But then, the speed built up quickly from around 40 kts indicated within just a few seconds.

This was indeed very scary. During the dive, we were looking at each other speechless, both of us thinking that this was it. Though he and I kept a cool head and wouldnt do anything stupid on top of that.

Besides, this is a very good friend of mine.

Needless to say that I never will intentionally spin a C152 ever again.

 

[CX880]

Sounds like spins are a thrill, haven't done them. Are they really that necessary?

 

[Snakum]

Sounds like spins are a thrill, haven't done them. Are they really that necessary?

I think they are. If you haven't seen one and gone thru the recovery procedures, what happens one day when you roll over and start turning because you got too slow in a turn? If you've seen it and done it, you at least have half a chance, if you have enough room before hitting dirt. Not being exposed to them, most of us will take way too long to respond. They freak people out the first time.

About C152s ... I have spun in C150s and C152s, and in fact, I learned to do it on my own by reading about the entry and recovery here a long time ago. I have always been told they were very safe for spins. The newer 172s are hard to spin, though, and I never have been able to make one do it, cleanly. I almost peed my pants once trying to spin a new SP and just wound up inverted instead.

 

[CX880]

\ I have always been told they were very safe for spins. The newer 172s are hard to spin, though, and I never have been able to make one do it, cleanly. I almost peed my pants once trying to spin a new SP and just wound up inverted instead.

Yea the 172s are said to be very stable and it's easy to get out of a spin. Howabout the light twins what's the experience like with those?

 

[Snakum]

I don't think spins in a multi-engine aircraft is anything I want to be a part of.

 

[jumppilot]

This thread suprises me. I recall doing spin training as both a student and a CFI in a C152. I never had any issues.

I agree.

I would routinely spin private students so they could see what it was.

I don't know the details of the PanAm incident, but for all of the posters talking about CFIs not doing spins, its dangerous, etc...

In a 152, it is as simple as grabbing a beer at the bar....You execute it successfully without thinking.