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OWNERSHIP = Real control. IOW, let's quit screwing around

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mkubwa
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Mkubwa

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Apr 25, 2005
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22
Since this got blown by on another thread I figured I'd post it here for a little discussion on the topic...

No one wants to talk about the ultimate in REAL control - OWNERSHIP. This concept is patly written off as unworkable: pilots fly airplanes, they don't own/run companies; the inmates running the asylum, etc. The idea is that the pilots themselves wouldn't manage the company. The BOD would be replaced and new management would be put into place that didn't espouse the standard Wharton/Harvard MBA-think that management is a separate class than the people who do the day-to-day work and are thus deserving of ridiculous salaries and benefit packages. Business is not theoretical physics - these guys are NOT the brightest bulbs in the room - don't forget that. MBA programs churn out new graduates like flight schools churn out new pilots (except at a much higher rate). In other words, this "talent" concept is just another marketing lie. They can be replaced, and for less. What is needed is a BOD with vision, power, and balls.

On the subject of employee ownership, everyone points to UAL and, saucer-eyed, says, "Fire burn Grog! No mess with fire!" Yeah, the United experiment didn't work out so well. Is it a Newtonian Law that it will never work? Isn't there a different way to structure a buyout? (There is.) There must be DISCIPLINE. Rick Dubinsky, one of the architects of the UAL ESOP, once stated, "We don't want to kill the golden goose. We just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg." Clearly, that's not the way to go if you want a viable company going forward.

We must remember that management's duty is to increase the value of the company for the shareholders. Ownership means these "shareholders" are YOU and it means the direction of the company will be decided (with discretion, restraint, vision, and discipline - ideally) by your union leadership with your interests in mind - either as an employee OR as a shareholder but preferably both.
 
Since this got blown by on another thread I figured I'd post it here for a little discussion on the topic...

No one wants to talk about the ultimate in REAL control - OWNERSHIP. This concept is patly written off as unworkable: pilots fly airplanes, they don't own/run companies; the inmates running the asylum, etc. The idea is that the pilots themselves wouldn't manage the company. The BOD would be replaced and new management would be put into place that didn't espouse the standard Wharton/Harvard MBA-think that management is a separate class than the people who do the day-to-day work and are thus deserving of ridiculous salaries and benefit packages. Business is not theoretical physics - these guys are NOT the brightest bulbs in the room - don't forget that. MBA programs churn out new graduates like flight schools churn out new pilots (except at a much higher rate). In other words, this "talent" concept is just another marketing lie. They can be replaced, and for less. What is needed is a BOD with vision, power, and balls.

On the subject of employee ownership, everyone points to UAL and, saucer-eyed, says, "Fire burn Grog! No mess with fire!" Yeah, the United experiment didn't work out so well. Is it a Newtonian Law that it will never work? Isn't there a different way to structure a buyout? (There is.) There must be DISCIPLINE. Rick Dubinsky, one of the architects of the UAL ESOP, once stated, "We don't want to kill the golden goose. We just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg." Clearly, that's not the way to go if you want a viable company going forward.

We must remember that management's duty is to increase the value of the company for the shareholders. Ownership means these "shareholders" are YOU and it means the direction of the company will be decided (with discretion, restraint, vision, and discipline - ideally) by your union leadership with your interests in mind - either as an employee OR as a shareholder but preferably both.

OK, I'll bite ....
And then what?
Lets hear your plan........
 
Since this got blown by on another thread I figured I'd post it here for a little discussion on the topic...
Uh,...guys,..guys, this is a General Aviation forum, please, before this gets going. It sounds awfully airlinish to me.
 
I have no idea how this thread ended up here. It was originally posted to the Majors forum.

I've requested WayToBroke (moderator) to move it back to the Majors forum.

-Mkubwa
 
Option C: Status quo.

Result: Everyone sees their airline career swirl down the toilet and are powerless to do anything except strike (if the Federal Gov't doesn't step in and stop it). And, really, in today's world a strike is like using a shovel for brain surgery...but it's all we've got...if your line happens to be union, hopefully.

Management teams buy out companies frequently. They'll take it private, spiff it up, and IPO it for a hefty profit putting it back in the public arena. No reason pilot groups couldn't do the same. There's only thousands of us to finance the deal.

I'm afraid the only way to kill the monster is to cut off its head. This would require pilots collectively pick up the sword. However, there are far too many who just want to stick their heads in the sand and hold their breath until they can retire, cash out, and wash their hands of the entire deal and leave the stinking carcass to the junior.
 
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It's been done before and it was a dismal failure. Ask any old timer at UAL.

I believe Kiwi was also a pilot owned airline as well.
 
Pay for a job airline

I believe Kiwi was also a pilot owned airline as well.
To work at Kiwi you had to purchase $50K of stock. A pilot run airline might function if it ran like a squadron. Every pilot has an office and management job. Training, manuals, recruiting, and dispatch. They fly and they also work the rest of days planning, fixing and making the company a better place to survive in the industry. Every pilot when in the management role is available 24/7 to come in and help, answer questions and provide guidance. Every employee is a shareholder and has the company increases in value the size of their nest egg grows with the company. How would pilot feel about working 24-26 days per month to make this happen?
 
A pilot run airline might function if it ran like a squadron. Every pilot has an office and management job. Training, manuals, recruiting, and dispatch. They fly and they also work the rest of days planning, fixing and making the company a better place to survive in the industry.

Only a milspec guy could come up with a retarded method of running a company like that. That might work in procurement, accounting, engineering (doubtful) but that is no way to run an airline.

It's stupid to pay airline captains to do lawyer work (ie negotiations) and it would be equally stupid to put pilots directly in charge of things outside of their expertise. Why pay them hourly flight pay to scale the learning curve?

So, you are still going to need professional managers, but they would be hired and directed by committees, with strong incentive to perform well . . . and you save the millions paid out in bonuses to top level execs. . . spread it around . . . . and, while you're at it, spread some my way!
 
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there are far too many who just want to stick their heads in the sand and hold their breath until they can retire, cash out, and wash their hands of the entire deal and leave the stinking carcass to the junior.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
 
A pilot run airline might function if it ran like a squadron. Every pilot has an office and management job. Every pilot when in the management role is available 24/7 to come in and help, answer questions and provide guidance. How would pilot feel about working 24-26 days per month to make this happen?
err, OK :cartman:
 
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