Overall state of the Corporate aviation industry

[Gulfstream 200]

Things are tough here. That is true. But, if the majority of your companies business is international. Things could not be better. With the weak U.S. dollar, international customers are having a "hay day". Therefore to meet with these customers it may be easier to justify the GV, the Globals and the Xs

+1

Hence the large demand for long range aircraft.

 

[sonicyouth]

For those looking to go corporate, just stay away from the homebuilders and richnecks, and go for the well-run Fortune 500 jobs. Your odds for stability will improve dramatically.

 

[Fokkerflyer]

I know of one fortunate 100 department that is about to get steamrolled and the flight department doesn't even know its coming.[/quote]


Crazy legs, care to elaborate..?

 

[Flyby1206]

I am surprised that someone with those kind of qualifications would accept a salary that low in such an unstable environment!

I can only think of maybe 1-2 regional 121 carriers still hiring, maybe virgin america as well. Besides that the 121 world has stopped hiring completely. Considering starting regional FO pay is around the $20k/yr range, I would take a $35k citation job instead.

 

[CRAZY LEGS]

I know of one fortunate 100 department that is about to get steamrolled and the flight department doesn't even know its coming.

Crazy legs, care to elaborate..?[/quote]


I would like to say more, however, the information I have is proprietary and any disclosure could potentially link me as the source.

As many of you know there are management companies on the prowl that are constantly approaching corporations with their pitch that they could run operations more efficiently. Sometimes, all it takes is one new eager CFO trying to make a name for himself and gone is fifty years of history.

 

[Grey Ghost]

I can only think of maybe 1-2 regional 121 carriers still hiring, maybe virgin america as well. Besides that the 121 world has stopped hiring completely. Considering starting regional FO pay is around the $20k/yr range, I would take a $35k citation job instead.

Regionals are hiring guys with 400 hours TT. If I was an owner I don't think that I would want some 400 hour wonder flying me and my family around in the company jet! I'd hire someone with at least with a little experience! Colgan, Piedmont, and few other weak regionals are still hiring with alot more job security than some Part 91 gig!

 

[BoilerUP]

Colgan, Piedmont, and few other weak regionals are still hiring with alot more job security than some Part 91 gig!

You really think Piedmont and Colgan offer better job security than the average part 91 job???

 

[Grey Ghost]

Whats the first thing to go when money gets tight at these companies? at least at colgan you can upgrade in 1-2 years and make a somewhat decent living. at alot of the smaller part 91 gigs, you may never upgrade if the captain doesn't ever leave!

 

[BoilerUP]

Whats the first thing to go when money gets tight at these companies?

If the airplane is essential to the company's operation and future growth, it ain't the airplane.

BizAv of today ain't bizav of the 1990s...

 

[wilky10]

I currently work for a small 91 operation and we are still flying quite a bit for business. The owners have slow down on personal trips, but I just spend more time looking for inexpensive fuel. I would agree with BoilerUp that the airplane would not be the first to go. The way airlines are, you might not make it to your destination on time. We also fly a small aircraft that is fuel efficient. On the other hand, that doesn't mean my job as a full time pilot is not in jeopardy. They could cut my salary and go with a contract pilot.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Corporate Flight Departments cannot sustain $7+ a gallon for long without the Bean Counters squealing...

 

[contrail67]

I can only think of maybe 1-2 regional 121 carriers still hiring, maybe virgin america as well. Besides that the 121 world has stopped hiring completely. Considering starting regional FO pay is around the $20k/yr range, I would take a $35k citation job instead.

Most regionals are starting out in the 30K range plus about 5K per year perdiem...averaging about 12-15 days off per month.

 

[BoilerUP]

Most regionals are starting out in the 30K range plus about 5K per year perdiem...averaging about 12-15 days off per month.

No...they aren't.

Most RJ regionals start at $20-24/hr the first year, with 11-12 days off minimum per month. You can make more money if you 1. don't sit reserve long if at all, 2. have good work rules, and 3. value money more than quality of life and pick up lots of opentime. These days, reserve at most places is running 4 or more months...and if you do get a line its normally a crappy, low-credit one.

My first year at AWAC, which currently pays the highest for 50 seat FOs, I earned $25k including per-diem. In my first 12 months I was in training for 2.5 months, sat reserve for 1.5 months, had a relief line one month and had a hard line for 7 months.

 

[AA717driver]

A Regional FO job would equate to a crappy job in a Citation/small Lear/Beechjet.

A Regional CA would equate to a decent Hawker/big Lear PIC--but just barely.

All IMO. TC

 

[LegacyDriver]

A Regional FO job would equate to a crappy job in a Citation/small Lear/Beechjet.

A Regional CA would equate to a decent Hawker/big Lear PIC--but just barely.

All IMO. TC

"Big Lear" ? That's a contradiction in terms.




I don't think they equate. Few things in life are more uncomfortable than wedging yourself into a Beechjet or Lear, regardless of the paycheck.

 

[lionflyer]

"Big Lear" ? That's a contradiction in terms.




I don't think they equate. Few things in life are more uncomfortable than wedging yourself into a Beechjet or Lear, regardless of the paycheck.

If you take out the commuting factor, the lear or beachjet trumps RJ CA. My opinion. Of course I've never sat in a lear. Just an RJ driver for too dang long.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Corporate aviation is doing quite well. From AINonline:

Bizjet Manufacturers Continue To Rack Up Sales

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Defying the sluggish U.S. economy, three business jet manufacturers on Friday separately announced fleet orders worth as much as a combined $3.5 billion. Fractional provider NetJets was the biggest shopper on the block that day, placing a firm order for $1.9 billion worth of Gulfstream G450s and G550s that will “significantly expand” its large-cabin fleet. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Under the agreement, NetJets will take delivery of 20 G450s and 20 G550s between 2012 and the end of 2016 at a rate of four of each model per year. This deal also includes a long-term maintenance support agreement. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Not to be outdone, Bombardier Aerospace said it received a “significant business jet sale” for 110 Learjet 60XRs worth up to $1.5 billion from an undisclosed European customer. The deal includes a firm order for 25 twinjets worth approximately $340 million, while orders for the remaining 85 are conditional. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deliveries of these Learjet 60XRs are scheduled to begin next year. Meanwhile, Cessna announced a more modest $87 million order from Canadian aircraft charter and management firm Execaire. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The order consists of four Citation Mustangs, three Sovereigns and two XLS+s. [/FONT]

 

[LegacyDriver]

If you take out the commuting factor, the lear or beachjet trumps RJ CA. My opinion. Of course I've never sat in a lear. Just an RJ driver for too dang long.

The grass ain't always greener man.

Corporate may have a better schedule or better pay, but RJs really are underrated in just about every area that matters, size/comfort being only one of several. Three of the four ex-RJ drivers I know flying Falcons now have said the same thing: "I never thought I'd hear myself say this but I sure miss the RJ."

*shrug*

 

[Tgaug6300]

Corporate aviation is doing quite well. From AINonline:

I agree. Like I said earlier, a weak U.S. dollar means great deals for international customers. Except for the Gulfstream NJ deal, all others were Non-US sales. And, those Gulfstreams may go to NJI.

 

[CFIcare]

A Regional FO job would equate to a crappy job in a Citation/small Lear/Beechjet.

A Regional CA would equate to a decent Hawker/big Lear PIC--but just barely.

All IMO. TC

Only if your example is talking about a 135 Hawker/Lear driver. Part 91 can be pretty nice in the QOL department, even flying a scary little Lear.