Overall state of the Corporate aviation industry

[LegacyDriver]

Corporate Flight Departments cannot sustain $7+ a gallon for long without the Bean Counters squealing...

 

[contrail67]

I can only think of maybe 1-2 regional 121 carriers still hiring, maybe virgin america as well. Besides that the 121 world has stopped hiring completely. Considering starting regional FO pay is around the $20k/yr range, I would take a $35k citation job instead.

Most regionals are starting out in the 30K range plus about 5K per year perdiem...averaging about 12-15 days off per month.

 

[BoilerUP]

Most regionals are starting out in the 30K range plus about 5K per year perdiem...averaging about 12-15 days off per month.

No...they aren't.

Most RJ regionals start at $20-24/hr the first year, with 11-12 days off minimum per month. You can make more money if you 1. don't sit reserve long if at all, 2. have good work rules, and 3. value money more than quality of life and pick up lots of opentime. These days, reserve at most places is running 4 or more months...and if you do get a line its normally a crappy, low-credit one.

My first year at AWAC, which currently pays the highest for 50 seat FOs, I earned $25k including per-diem. In my first 12 months I was in training for 2.5 months, sat reserve for 1.5 months, had a relief line one month and had a hard line for 7 months.

 

[AA717driver]

A Regional FO job would equate to a crappy job in a Citation/small Lear/Beechjet.

A Regional CA would equate to a decent Hawker/big Lear PIC--but just barely.

All IMO. TC

 

[LegacyDriver]

A Regional FO job would equate to a crappy job in a Citation/small Lear/Beechjet.

A Regional CA would equate to a decent Hawker/big Lear PIC--but just barely.

All IMO. TC

"Big Lear" ? That's a contradiction in terms.




I don't think they equate. Few things in life are more uncomfortable than wedging yourself into a Beechjet or Lear, regardless of the paycheck.

 

[lionflyer]

"Big Lear" ? That's a contradiction in terms.




I don't think they equate. Few things in life are more uncomfortable than wedging yourself into a Beechjet or Lear, regardless of the paycheck.

If you take out the commuting factor, the lear or beachjet trumps RJ CA. My opinion. Of course I've never sat in a lear. Just an RJ driver for too dang long.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Corporate aviation is doing quite well. From AINonline:

Bizjet Manufacturers Continue To Rack Up Sales

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Defying the sluggish U.S. economy, three business jet manufacturers on Friday separately announced fleet orders worth as much as a combined $3.5 billion. Fractional provider NetJets was the biggest shopper on the block that day, placing a firm order for $1.9 billion worth of Gulfstream G450s and G550s that will “significantly expand” its large-cabin fleet. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Under the agreement, NetJets will take delivery of 20 G450s and 20 G550s between 2012 and the end of 2016 at a rate of four of each model per year. This deal also includes a long-term maintenance support agreement. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Not to be outdone, Bombardier Aerospace said it received a “significant business jet sale” for 110 Learjet 60XRs worth up to $1.5 billion from an undisclosed European customer. The deal includes a firm order for 25 twinjets worth approximately $340 million, while orders for the remaining 85 are conditional. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deliveries of these Learjet 60XRs are scheduled to begin next year. Meanwhile, Cessna announced a more modest $87 million order from Canadian aircraft charter and management firm Execaire. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The order consists of four Citation Mustangs, three Sovereigns and two XLS+s. [/FONT]

 

[LegacyDriver]

If you take out the commuting factor, the lear or beachjet trumps RJ CA. My opinion. Of course I've never sat in a lear. Just an RJ driver for too dang long.

The grass ain't always greener man.

Corporate may have a better schedule or better pay, but RJs really are underrated in just about every area that matters, size/comfort being only one of several. Three of the four ex-RJ drivers I know flying Falcons now have said the same thing: "I never thought I'd hear myself say this but I sure miss the RJ."

*shrug*

 

[Tgaug6300]

Corporate aviation is doing quite well. From AINonline:

I agree. Like I said earlier, a weak U.S. dollar means great deals for international customers. Except for the Gulfstream NJ deal, all others were Non-US sales. And, those Gulfstreams may go to NJI.

 

[CFIcare]

A Regional FO job would equate to a crappy job in a Citation/small Lear/Beechjet.

A Regional CA would equate to a decent Hawker/big Lear PIC--but just barely.

All IMO. TC

Only if your example is talking about a 135 Hawker/Lear driver. Part 91 can be pretty nice in the QOL department, even flying a scary little Lear.

 

[AA717driver]

Only if your example is talking about a 135 Hawker/Lear driver. Part 91 can be pretty nice in the QOL department, even flying a scary little Lear.

Ok, 'the ghost of Legacydriver past' notwithstanding, I at least got in the ballpark. Right?

Generally, RJ CA's are in the $60-$80k range (yes, I know the pay scales go higher but...). FO's are in the $18-$40k range.

Not many Hawker CA's out there making more than $80k (REAL Hawker, not a renamed Diamond).

Can't compare QOL because it varies too much. TC

 

[stupidpilot]

Sure you can compare QOL. Corporate flying (for me anyway). No commuting, no deadheading, pretty good bennies, mediocre pay (but prob better than RJ Capt), Usually pretty happy clients because they don't have to mess with the TSA BS, sometimes they tip too, and the list goes on. I have only had to fly once in 3 weeks. SWEET!

 

[Grey Ghost]

I can't imagine your skills stay very sharp flying that little amount?

 

[SansPlane]

Communism is alive and well

[FONT=&quot]What happened to the thread about a certain telephone company’s flight department? Overall state of aviation information, sanitized I guess. [/FONT]At&t - Uh Oh!!!!!!!! - Flightinfo.com Hangar

 

[Choppy]

Ok, 'the ghost of Legacydriver past' notwithstanding, I at least got in the ballpark. Right?

Generally, RJ CA's are in the $60-$80k range (yes, I know the pay scales go higher but...). FO's are in the $18-$40k range.

Not many Hawker CA's out there making more than $80k (REAL Hawker, not a renamed Diamond).

Can't compare QOL because it varies too much. TC

Every Hawker CA at my airport that I know of is making way more that that flying a Hawker. There are 6 FD with them and I personally know people that fly for each department. The NBAA average CA salary for that equipment, depending on the region, is around 90K.

 

[say again]

We are extremely slow on the 135 side, and the 91 accounts aren't looking so great either. I used to feel that I had pretty good job security, but that's hardly the way I feel now. Looks like it's time to start updating the good ole resume. Anyone know of a company looking for Hawker CA's?? haha

 

[say again]

Every Hawker CA at my airport that I know of is making way more that that flying a Hawker. There are 6 FD with them and I personally know people that fly for each department. The NBAA average CA salary for that equipment, depending on the region, is around 90K.

What airport is this????:beer:

 

[stupidpilot]

I can't imagine your skills stay very sharp flying that little amount?

You'd think that but having flown the same plane for so many years it is just old hat now.

 

[rumrnr78]

Figured I better give this a bump! Should be an interesting week!

Cheers- Rum

 

[jetpilotjay]

Laid Off.

Well, I thought I had a good corporate job. It disappeared before my eyes today. Time to dust off the ole resume`. I'm Part 61 current in the G-200 and Be400 if anyone has any leads. Good luck to everyone.

 

[AA717driver]

Check your PM's. TC

 

[LegacyDriver]

Well, I thought I had a good corporate job. It disappeared before my eyes today. Time to dust off the ole resume`. I'm Part 61 current in the G-200 and Be400 if anyone has any leads. Good luck to everyone.

Welcome to the club.

Good luck to you as well.

Rum, I hope you get the call otherwise you better brush up on your Russian.

 

[rumrnr78]

Well count me in as well! Thought I had it made at AT&T! For the short career I had there it was great!
Well, the resume is out and I am open to any suggestions!!

Cheers to all- Rum

 

[LegacyDriver]

Man what a sad state of affairs.

Time to pull the ejection lanyard on this industry and go do something else.

 

[southernpilot]

Our corporate flight department couldn't be doing better! We are flying more than ever, adding pilots, and renewing our fleet with new airplanes. We pre-flight, fly the trips and go home.
Of course this won't last. Wife and I have hoarded our cash for the pending doom, moved a third of our assets to bonds, and gone back to shopping for gas and using coupons.
SP

 

[sleepy]

Our flying is up 30 percent over last year. Even with jet A costing us $4.80 a gallon (we have it refined ourselves to get the lowest price) we are still going balls to the wall. There is way more demand for aircraft than availability. If we could hire some more pilots we could fly even more.

Of course it will all come crashing down someday, it always does.

 

[ksu_aviator]

With the right aircraft, a private aircraft might just be cheaper. Our Metro, with 12 seats, beats the round trip economy tickets from DFW to MIA. I know some airports have outrageous fuel prices, but there are ways to get around that. We've even gone so far as to repo to buy fuel. Of course, we tanker fuel when we can, we use the long range cruise power, we have all of the free fuel contract programs and anything else we can do to keep costs down.

My point is that, with the right management, a corporate aircraft can be an inexpensive and necessary tool of business, not a luxury that drains the company of profits.

 

[Bandit60]

Our corporate flight department couldn't be doing better! We are flying more than ever, adding pilots, and renewing our fleet with new airplanes. We pre-flight, fly the trips and go home.
Of course this won't last. Wife and I have hoarded our cash for the pending doom, moved a third of our assets to bonds, and gone back to shopping for gas and using coupons.
SP

A third of your assets in bonds? WoW. If you age 55 or younger I think you should talk to an advisor. I think there are MUCH better places to put your money than bonds. Market is down..this is a great time to buy stocks or mutual funds if you are going to be in the game for then next ten years or longer. (remember buy low and sell high). I cant remember the last time I have heard of a persons success story about how he bought bonds and made a fortune.

With all that being said, I wish you good luck in the future.

 

[Freight Dog]

I wouldn't worry about the state of corporate aviation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7MIpyUpEcE&feature=related

As long as this is the norm at the airlines, you've got nothing to worry about at corporate.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I wouldn't worry about the state of corporate aviation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7MIpyUpEcE&feature=related

As long as this is the norm at the airlines, you've got nothing to worry about at corporate.

OMG that is hilarious! I needed that laugh!