Our jobs and the entire airline industry is about to implode............

[NEDude]

I think the article was poorly written, the points made were weak at best, and he made airline pilots look even more like whiners.

The simple fact is the American consumer will not, in most instances, pay more for better quality. They will pay for the cheapest thing out there, and it has been proven time and time again, in industry after industry. We are not unique in that matter.

I think the problem is threefold:

Since 2001 the industry has been in utter turmoil. Tens of thousands of pilots, and hundreds of thousands of airline employees have lost jobs or had significant reductions in pay, benefits and retirement income. Personally I have been furloughed three times since 2001 and missed a fourth by one seniority number. On the flip side, how many airline managers have been adversely affected? Even those who have lost their jobs walked away with millions of dollars in bonuses. The rest are rewarded with ever increasing bonuses for failing performance: File for bankruptcy - here is a 20 million dollar bonus, cut employee salaries by $100 million - here is a 100 million dollar bonus, default on loan payments of $50 million - here is a 50 million dollar bonus. You get the picture. The executives are not held accountable for their performance. Somehow the executives need to be held accountable for poor performance. This is true in our industry as well as others. I do not know how to hold them accountable other than through strict government oversight, and who knows how effective it will be. But somehow, someway, poor executive performance needs to be punished - through loss of pay - not rewarded as the current system does.

The second issue is flight/duty time/experience regulations. This has been discussed ad nauseum and I do not wish to rehash it all here. I think we are all on agreement here. I do however with to point out that his has been the one execption to the old adage that FARs are written in blood. This has been the one area that even though many people have died due to this problem, the FAA has refused to even consider addressing. Thanks to the ATA - (sarcsam warning - one has to wonder why they are so opposed to changing the regulations, if it negatively affects their bottom line the executives will just be able to cash in even larger bonuses).

Lastly the problem is with the unions. Our unions, when it comes to addressing the issues facing us, throw out a few cursory words on the issue and go back to collecting dues. Why the #@^& hasn't ALPA, APA, SWAPA and the Teamsters joined forces and screamed bloody murder about CrewPass? Why haven't they jumped all over the fatigue issues? I know at times the unions have conflicting issues, but these are a few things every single one of us are united on. Get out and do informational picketing at airports about rest and duty time regulations, do it as a joint venture of all the unions. Get pilots out there every day at all major airports. Pool the resources and take out regular ads in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and USA Today. Make the ads shocking. Have the number of dead people attributed to pilot fatigue written in big bold red letters. Show a picture of a crash site. Cite how the NTSB has been after the FAA for decades to address the issue. Cite the opposition to it by the airline managers who make millions of dollars a year. We could make a huge difference on this if the unions really cared. Same thing with CrewPass. These two issues would have a huge impact on our quality of life and increase the demand for qualified pilots.

But to complain to the consumers that they do not pay enough is a weak and futile argument. How would you like to hear from your car saleman next time your there to purchase, that you need to pay more so he can pay his bills?

 

[pilotyip]

Yip:

You're absolutely right. I don't believe it will be fixed because the consumer, union member or not, is unwilling or too stupid to educate themselves. It's a systemic outcome of market forces.

Yet, how willing are we to let gov't regulate everything? There's the rub...

And of course re-reg would have an upside for some senior guys and a downside for many junior guys. Is that the answer?

 

[taters]

I cant belive the awful scumbags replying to that article...
"
The skills involved in flying an airplane are overrated. (My pilot friends would agree) It is only the consequences of the mistakes that make us think of this as an elite profession. There should be regulations about rest requirements just as there should for bus and truck drivers. The pay for an occupation is determined by supply and demand. If you have a bunch of young pilots willing to fly for low wages, oh well. You aren’t going to raise their experience or skill level but having a pilot minimum wage. Flyers don’t think they are “entitled” to fly anywhere for $99. Airlines in intense competition for butts to put in the seats are cutting costs to lower prices. That’s how competition works.
— Bob Wortman"

 

[pilotyip]

Nice does of reality

I cant belive the awful scumbags replying to that article...
"
The skills involved in flying an airplane are overrated. (My pilot friends would agree) It is only the consequences of the mistakes that make us think of this as an elite profession. There should be regulations about rest requirements just as there should for bus and truck drivers. The pay for an occupation is determined by supply and demand. If you have a bunch of young pilots willing to fly for low wages, oh well. You aren’t going to raise their experience or skill level but having a pilot minimum wage. Flyers don’t think they are “entitled” to fly anywhere for $99. Airlines in intense competition for butts to put in the seats are cutting costs to lower prices. That’s how competition works.
— Bob Wortman"

The ugly truth that many appear to want to ignore. BTW there are rest regulations just like the truckers, just different.

 

[inline]

Until the mid '80s, civilian pilots took a back seat to getting hired at the airlines. It was a closed shop for military pilots. Just like FedEx now.

 

[Browntothebone]

The point is that the public doesn't care about the woes of the passenger pilots. ALL they care about is a cheap ticket.

 

[Browntothebone]

I cant belive the awful scumbags replying to that article...
"
The skills involved in flying an airplane are overrated. (My pilot friends would agree) It is only the consequences of the mistakes that make us think of this as an elite profession. There should be regulations about rest requirements just as there should for bus and truck drivers. The pay for an occupation is determined by supply and demand. If you have a bunch of young pilots willing to fly for low wages, oh well. You aren’t going to raise their experience or skill level but having a pilot minimum wage. Flyers don’t think they are “entitled” to fly anywhere for $99. Airlines in intense competition for butts to put in the seats are cutting costs to lower prices. That’s how competition works.
— Bob Wortman"

You are correct. The actual manipulation of the controls is very easy. It's always come easy for me, flying. You just need to get some good experience to build a data bank to fall back on when times are tough in the air.

 

[SLFLYHI]

I read Capt. Steve's article, and it wasn't bad. He was right about some things, but off base on others. The problem isn't $99 fares. The problem isn't the pilots at regional airlines, or foreign airlines, or low fare airlines. The problem is management. Period. The managers at the airlines have proven to be experts at divide-and-conquer. By successfully pitting one pilot group against another, whipsawing for new or continued flying, and generally using pilot livelihoods as a marketing weapon, they have ruined this profession. Unfortunately for us, there isn't a single union for pilots and as such, managers will continue this warfare even if it results in blood on their hands. I don't know what the solution is, but the problem, at least in my opinion, is clear.

 

[Browntothebone]

I read Capt. Steve's article, and it wasn't bad. He was right about some things, but off base on others. The problem isn't $99 fares. The problem isn't the pilots at regional airlines, or foreign airlines, or low fare airlines. The problem is management. Period. The managers at the airlines have proven to be experts at divide-and-conquer. By successfully pitting one pilot group against another, whipsawing for new or continued flying, and generally using pilot livelihoods as a marketing weapon, they have ruined this profession. Unfortunately for us, there isn't a single union for pilots and as such, managers will continue this warfare even if it results in blood on their hands. I don't know what the solution is, but the problem, at least in my opinion, is clear.

If your plane has Express, Connection, Airlink or any other regional trade name painted on it, then you ARE the problem.

 

[Full of LUV]

It's still the jumpseat....

I read Capt. Steve's article, and it wasn't bad. He was right about some things, but off base on others. The problem isn't $99 fares. The problem isn't the pilots at regional airlines, or foreign airlines, or low fare airlines. The problem is management. Period. The managers at the airlines have proven to be experts at divide-and-conquer. By successfully pitting one pilot group against another, whipsawing for new or continued flying, and generally using pilot livelihoods as a marketing weapon, they have ruined this profession. Unfortunately for us, there isn't a single union for pilots and as such, managers will continue this warfare even if it results in blood on their hands. I don't know what the solution is, but the problem, at least in my opinion, is clear.

The jumpseat should be held for professionals who make a professional wage. Right now, if you want to start up a cheap airline in San Francisco, no problem, because all of your competitors will deliver your low wage workers to the job site via the jumpseat. If it were not access to this, most companies would have to pay a decent wage to either get access, or convince pilots to move to their base. It would be much harder for skybus, rah, etc to get going at substandard wages. Where is ALPA in stating that !!!!! is the professional minimum wage in order to be a pilot for a 121 carrier. It may limit the top end in negotiating, but it will surely pull up the bottom end and I think most pilots realize that being undercut is far more dangerous than the relatively short lived designation of being the "highest paid" in the industry. LUV

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Pilots, all of us, complain that consumers aren't paying enough for a ticket, then we rush to other industries and become the consumers we loath....

The market will continue to race to bottom when people function solely or mostly as consumers.

Airlines and most corporations in any given industry will continue the battle for the lowest cost and prices. What else are they to do...??

The only way corporations will change direction on the race to bottom is if they are mandated and that mandate applies to everyone. IOW, legislation.

Legislation is is a function of citizenship. Not consumerism.

 

[Browntothebone]

The jumpseat should be held for professionals who make a professional wage. Right now, if you want to start up a cheap airline in San Francisco, no problem, because all of your competitors will deliver your low wage workers to the job site via the jumpseat. If it were not access to this, most companies would have to pay a decent wage to either get access, or convince pilots to move to their base. It would be much harder for skybus, rah, etc to get going at substandard wages. Where is ALPA in stating that !!!!! is the professional minimum wage in order to be a pilot for a 121 carrier. It may limit the top end in negotiating, but it will surely pull up the bottom end and I think most pilots realize that being undercut is far more dangerous than the relatively short lived designation of being the "highest paid" in the industry. LUV

Sounds like you are saying that jumpseat priority for offline pilots should be by your hourly pay rate, irregardless of who signs up first for the jumpseat.

 

[777forever]

Very poorly written article that comes across as a long winded rant with no thesis or conclusion. Has the author ever heard of a free market? Since when have pilots (well known as some of the cheapest mofo's on this green earth) been given the right to bash passengers for getting the cheapest ticket they can get?

 

[JoeMerchant]

The jumpseat should be held for professionals who make a professional wage. Right now, if you want to start up a cheap airline in San Francisco, no problem, because all of your competitors will deliver your low wage workers to the job site via the jumpseat. If it were not access to this, most companies would have to pay a decent wage to either get access, or convince pilots to move to their base. It would be much harder for skybus, rah, etc to get going at substandard wages. Where is ALPA in stating that !!!!! is the professional minimum wage in order to be a pilot for a 121 carrier. It may limit the top end in negotiating, but it will surely pull up the bottom end and I think most pilots realize that being undercut is far more dangerous than the relatively short lived designation of being the "highest paid" in the industry. LUV

Do you work for Southwest?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Pilots, all of us, complain that consumers aren't paying enough for a ticket, then we rush to other industries and become the consumers we loath....

The market will continue to race to bottom when people function solely or mostly as consumers.

Airlines and most corporations in any given industry will continue the battle for the lowest cost and prices. What else are they to do...??

The only way corporations will change direction on the race to bottom is if they are mandated and that mandate applies to everyone. IOW, legislation.

Legislation is is a function of citizenship. Not consumerism.

I don't agree with you on much....but it is amusing how many pilots complain about pay and low fares...then shop around for the lowest price and try to get "a deal".....

They hate the $99 airfare.....while they try to get the $39 hotel room and $15 rental car.......