Other reasons airlines are failing...

[Eagle-ista]

Today, while flying as a non-rev on a major legacy carrier, I had the (un)pleasant experience of tolerating a toddler for 5 hours. This kid would not sleep or sit quietly. It was either laughing (not too bad to deal with) or screaming (intolerable).

What was worse is that the lap child was climbing all over it's parents in first class on a 767.

All I could think of was the other passengers that paid to sit in first, looking forward to the nice seat, upgraded food and drink, and quiet, up-scale passengers seated around them that wouldn't bother them.

If I was one of them, I would be pi$$ed! I would be asking the reservations agent if there was even a remote chance that there would be an lap child in first class, and if there was, I'd call a different airline. This is assuming I wasn't too angry to return in the first place.

I have had this joyous experience about half the time I have been commuting over the last six months or so. When are our managers going to get it? People pay the extra fee to sit in first to get away from screaming babies that climb uncontrollably over their parents.

Am I alone in this perception?

 

[737tanker]

Eagle-ista

So in your world children & their parents would only be allowed to fly coach. I guess they use a different type of money than you. Remember the airlines don't let passengers into First Class because they like them. They either paid for the ticket or used miles that they had earned to upgrade. Enjoy your free ride in First Class, just remember the parents with the child didn't get First Class for free.

 

[I.P. Freley]

The baby was crying and ruined my non-rev experience WAHHHHHHHHH...

Your whining is more annoying than any baby I've dealt with. You had a free ride in 1st and you're on here boo-hooing a crying baby. What the f*** were they supposed to do on this unfortunate legacy carrier, tell the people who paid $1500/seat that they had to stuff their infant in an overhead?? Shove a rubber ball in the wee one's mouth?

Sometimes the people who can afford 1st class have babies. Sometimes they bring those babies with them on flights. Sometimes you are going to have to deal with it when you get to sit there for free... And so are those who PAID for the seats. You're absolutely insane if you think that they should have to find a way to silence crying toddlers in First Class. This is what we call "LIFE".

Just my humble opinion, of course.

 

[Juvat]

Am I alone in this perception?

For the sake of all humanity, I hope that you are.

Aren't you embarassed to write such garbage?

 

[tranceport]

I know of at least two majors that do not allow children (under 5 I think) from being allowed to non rev in First. With that being said the screaming child was probably a paying passenger (albeit lap child, which I would not ever do to my newborn, but that's a topic all it's own and I digress).

So in conclusion, if you think filling up first class with revenue paying, cry baby customers is another reason this may be hurting airlines, then you are wrong. If they could fill first all the time those seats go empty with high fare cry babies then maybe they'd make some money.

I'd take a crying baby over a large farting business man anyday!

Moral of story: buy some soft NRR33 earplugs! they work for me!

 

[semperfido]

they are annoying in restaurants too

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Today, while flying as a non-rev on a major legacy carrier, I had the (un)pleasant experience of tolerating a toddler for 5 hours. This kid would not sleep or sit quietly. It was either laughing (not too bad to deal with) or screaming (intolerable).

What was worse is that the lap child was climbing all over it's parents in first class on a 767.

All I could think of was the other passengers that paid to sit in first, looking forward to the nice seat, upgraded food and drink, and quiet, up-scale passengers seated around them that wouldn't bother them.

If I was one of them, I would be pi$$ed! I would be asking the reservations agent if there was even a remote chance that there would be an lap child in first class, and if there was, I'd call a different airline. This is assuming I wasn't too angry to return in the first place.

I have had this joyous experience about half the time I have been commuting over the last six months or so. When are our managers going to get it? People pay the extra fee to sit in first to get away from screaming babies that climb uncontrollably over their parents.

Am I alone in this perception?

you obviously have not traveled much lately as a First Calss pax....it aint what it used to be...

most have $hit service, no magazines, ripped old seats etc....its certainly no treat.

Any really, are kids to be banned from First Class? WTF?

"quiet-upscale customers around them".....

P-LEASE...far from these days...try obnoxious self important over worked middle management scumbag with bad breath and gas....or the obnoxious "we used all our miles on this upgrade so keep the wine flowing" loud couple who think they are the Rockefellers in Row 1....

Ill take a laughing kid anyday...

 

[wms]

My kids acted up on a flight once...once. The minimum age for non-revs in first class at DAL is 8. I agree that the road warrior that supports our airline should not have to tolerate our kids. Mine are 7 and 5 and know travel manners as well as table manners. Unfortunately, manners in general are a thing of the past, and not just for kids.

 

[I.P. Freley]

My kids acted up on a flight once...once. The minimum age for non-revs in first class at DAL is 8.

Who ever said that the child and parents in question were non-revs? I know YOU didn't, at least not quite, but the point here is a non-rev is essentially complaining that his solitude was interrupted. How perfectly tasteless.... And how perfectly unaware of his/her own "freebie" status.

 

[91100 100 set]

Children should be seen and not heard. Or am I too old fashioned?

 

[wms]

Noone, but someone (tranceport) in an earlier post mentioned minor nonrevs in first. The point is that non-revs or not, there are no manners being taught anywhere, at any age.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I guess that parents should show those 18-mo olds who's boss! Just shove napkins in their mouths and tell them to shut the f*** up!! If that doesn't work, just pile 'em all in a minivan and back 'em into a pond, huh!? THAT'LL SHOW 'EM!!

Don't want to upset Eagle-ista, do we?? FOR SHAME!!!!

 

[Vik]

Excellent point.

I've only had this happen once and it was on American. I've flown 1st on almost any other airline you can think of without this happening. I rarely see kids let alone toddlers. After being through what you went through once, I'd leave the aircraft right prior to the door being closed if I saw a toddler in first. Its happenined once and will not occur again.

My exp: American Airlines flight was LAX to LHR. I asked to be moved to Business Class and when I returned to LAX, I wrote to customer service that refunded the entire difference between 1st and Business for the entire trip, not just the first leg. Now thats what I call excellent service -- FA agreed to do something to help me on a nice long 11hr flight, and the CS dept did the right thing in refunding me the difference.

Today, while flying as a non-rev on a major legacy carrier, I had the (un)pleasant experience of tolerating a toddler for 5 hours. This kid would not sleep or sit quietly. It was either laughing (not too bad to deal with) or screaming (intolerable).

What was worse is that the lap child was climbing all over it's parents in first class on a 767.

All I could think of was the other passengers that paid to sit in first, looking forward to the nice seat, upgraded food and drink, and quiet, up-scale passengers seated around them that wouldn't bother them.

If I was one of them, I would be pi$$ed! I would be asking the reservations agent if there was even a remote chance that there would be an lap child in first class, and if there was, I'd call a different airline. This is assuming I wasn't too angry to return in the first place.

I have had this joyous experience about half the time I have been commuting over the last six months or so. When are our managers going to get it? People pay the extra fee to sit in first to get away from screaming babies that climb uncontrollably over their parents.

Am I alone in this perception?

 

[Vik]

I think many of you missed the point of his post. He's not b!tching about how his free ride was ruined. He's pointing out that having infants in 1st is going to ruin the profitability of that airline since something like 15% of that airline's customers probably make up 75% of its profit.

 

[rajflyboy]

The problem was with the Parents! Not with the Airline!

 

[mdf]

FWIW I was deadheading on a SWA flight the other day and an infant in the row in front of me was screaming. I mean screaming! The mother was trying in vein to quite the child down. After a few moments two ladies from rows in front of us came back to the mother and helped quiet the baby down. These people were all perfect strangers. This all happened before push, and after that not another peep from the baby all way from LAS-MDW. A little compassion goes a long way.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

Another reason airlines are failing...

Because certain people in the industry don't realize who is paying their paycheck. Here's a clue to that question, genius...that lady with the screaming baby. I've found that nine times out of ten, people who complain about kids (screaming, or whatever) have blown the whole thing way out of proportion. And another thing, in addition to some of the great suggestions given above (earplugs...duh!) how about (since you say this has happened to you sooooo often in the past six months) whenever you walk on a plane and see a kid sitting next to you in FIRST CLASS, you glide to the back of the plane and announce "who would like to trade seats with me?....I'm in first class." Problem solved.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I gotta agree..the fault is with parents these days. Kids have thier moments on airplanes, but look at the mom or dad traveling with them - 99% of the time they are TRYING to make the best of it. I can live with that...thats kids for ya..

but...

I really despise how parents allow thier kids to roam the halls of hotels, and my personal favorite -- roam restaurants being loud and obnoxious..so long as they get some peace and quiet they dont care what thier brats are doing to the general public.

Let me tell you why this is a bad idea....

About the 3rd time a brat runs by me at a restaurant screaming....I stop him/her and notify them (with a serious psycho look) that there will be a devil/killer in thier closet tonight when they go to bed....and he hates little kids...now run along and tell your daddy that, and then send him over so I can kick his a$$.

That usually stops the drive-bys by little brats.

 

[flyboytop1]

I non-rev alot too, But I'd sit on the wingtip to avoid a crying baby-I hear ya

 

[I.P. Freley]

I think many of you missed the point of his post. He's not b!tching about how his free ride was ruined. He's pointing out that having infants in 1st is going to ruin the profitability of that airline

I got the point, Vik. The point is that noone prohibits babies in 1st, at least none that I know of, and I don't think any passenger is going to say "boy, I hated that screaming baby on (insert airline here), so I think next time I will go on (insert other airline here) instead", or "boy, I hated that screaming baby on that airliner, next time I'll drive". This was just a b1tchfest about a screaming baby cloaked in a "this will cause that airline to fail" story.

 

[DashTrash400]

Yikes, I thought it was a perfectly sensible post. He wasn't proposing to impale babies on spikes, to paraphrase George Carlin... you woulda thought it from some of the responses.

When I'm nonreving I don't complain if I'm stuck between a 400 lb hermaphrodite cowboy from Brazil and an excited Jehovah's Witness while the 3 rambunctious Ugly Monkey's (UM's) behind me kick my seat and five lap kids in the immediate vicinity scream their lungs out....BUT it's still a perfectly valid to question whether that sort of situation becoming commonplace is one of the things that'd make paying passengers fly as little as practical.

The person ante'ing up for a F ticket does have a few expections regarding comfort, service, and yes, decorum. Chances are they're thinking precisely of that screaming kid in Y when they decide to pony up the $. Banning young children from non-reving in F seems to be a perfectly reasonable policy; doing so to paying passengers would invite a lawsuit and unwanted media attention - "Delta hates kids!" - while alienating those well-heeled passengers with well-behaved children.

Anyways...High fuel costs, security costs, depressed yeilds, SWA, and good old fashioned mismanagement are helping airlines fail easily enough...I doubt it's colicky infants pushing them over the edge.

 

[crazee8]

About the 3rd time a brat runs by me at a restaurant screaming....I stop him/her and notify them (with a serious psycho look) that there will be a devil/killer in thier closet tonight when they go to bed....and he hates little kids...now run along and tell your daddy that, and then send him over so I can kick his a$$.

That usually stops the drive-bys by little brats.

Dude, do you have any other ideas? I like your train of thought.

Kids almost always make the travel experience miserable except for the the small minority of parents out there who know how to handle their kids. To those parents - we are forever grateful.

 

[Ty Webb]

Sorry, guys, I'm with DashTrash on this one. First Class is no place for infants or toddlers. Setting a minimum age limit would be very appropriate.

And as to non-reving with kids- if I am offered seats in business when I have my 4 year old with me, I usually say, "thanks, but we'll take something in the back".

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I think Most legacies have a policy that keeps children under 5 from sitting in first. Its just a matter of wether the gate enforces that.

But as far as any of you guys bitching about kids. How many of you have them? Do you ever expect to have kids? If not well then I'm sorry for you. We parents do what we can but sometimes the kids gonna have a meltdown. It makes matters worse when the kid has to put his/her seatbelt on for T/O and landing and not climb all over creation. That is what kids do. Kids are gonna be kids. Kids also cry and sometimes there is nothing you can do to calm them down. Live with it. Its life.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In 16 years you are going to want someone to take your order at MickeyD's. Or perhaps you want to pay $50 for a BigMac.

Children are our future..

 

[jtf]

Mandatory sleeping pills for all under age 5 on all flight, period! Or at least let the FAs get away with drugging the rug rats when they are our of control. FAs could carry tranquilizer guns that could serve the dual purpose of anti-terrorist and anti-tantrum.

 

[Hovernut]

...just wait until they can use cell phones in flight!

 

[Huck]

Or you could do like the family I saw one time going from Paris to Atlanta on Air Frog's 747 - two little kids (ages 7 and 10) were sitting beside me in coach, and every once in awhile a well dressed woman would come back from first and check on them.

I finally asked - the parents bought themselves first class tickets, and put the kids in coach.

PS - 9 times out of 10 if a baby is screaming in pain on an aircraft, their ears are stopped up.

 

[IAHERJ]

I remember Continental having pretty strict rules about kids in first. I was on my own carrier last month commuting in business class when our agent put a family in business with 2 small children. One of the kids screamed so loud on descent it caused people to actually get out of their seats and ask if they could be of assistance. I watched as several of our businessmen who had paid for the upgrade rolled their eyes and sat in misery. I don't think they should have had to endure that mess. To top it off, they were non-rev's from another airline that our agents put in Business class. Sorry if I sound cold but leave the first/business class cabins for the people who do business and pay our bills. Unless the passanger pays full business fare for the seat for his or her screaming child, they should be in the back.

IAHERJ

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

I non-reved on Delta from the ages between three and twenty-three. My Dad gave me many rules that I had to follow. Also, back in the seventies and early eighties there was no such thing as a non-rev unacompanied minor program. When me and my little bother flew to see the grandparents we were on our own. My Dad usually would pin his service pin on my lapel so the FAs would know to look out for us.

Now for the rules: Do not open your mouth unless spoken to, do not ask the FA for anything, yes ma'am no ma'am etc, and under no circumstances was I allowed to get up when the seat belt sign was on. If any of these rules were broken my Dad would be fired and thrown in jail, at least that is what he told me. And, to this day I get flustered if an FA offers me a choice of meals .