Organization of Black Airline Pilots Part 2

[Reebo]

PCL... the original poster (Psycho) did not ask for simply "someone"... but a someone that was BLACK... not white, not asian, not hispanic, not Irish, not Jewish, not Italian, not Pacific Islander... just BLACK. Of course you knew that, but prefer to appear to be simply a poor reader.

I completely fail to see why so many continue to perpetuate race as a division among us. Why would someone's skin color matter one iota during a 2nd grade presentation about aviation opportunities? The only possible explanation is that many harbor racist views. If we are a color-blind society, then why would Psycho be seeking only speakers from a particular race? I'm confused?

Why would the speaker's race or gender matter at all? Is Psycho suggesting that BLACK youths are only capable of learning about aviation opportunities from other BLACKS? This is 2008, isn't it?

To me it seems clear that the old phrase, "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem" was never more appropriate. Some just insist on perpetuating discrimination and keeping the races at odds with each other.

BBB

I think you miss the point.

Many inner city black youths are raised in single parent households with no Father. There are liquor stores on every corner. Gangs rule the streets. Your choices are to play ball or run drugs. If you're lucky maybe you'll make it as a Rapper.

Maybe you have a TV. What do you see? Athletes making millions with all the toys. Escalades on 24's, Fat Cribs, Bling, all the ladies you want and a shoe named after you. Do you think some white guy who flies for NW can relate to these kids? I Don't think it's gonna happen.

As much as we all want this stuff to end it's not going to any time soon. All OBAP is trying to do is reach these kids and maybe one or two might see that there are other opportunities out there.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

I'm for real Phrogs. Apparently raised color-blind and raising my children the same way.

You must think the civil rights struggle was just in a history book, or the words of MLK just some flowery sermon to be dismissed... but tough Marines like you live in the "real world".

How many centuries are you going to let pass till you think we're "ready" for a color-blind society?

BBB

A color blind world has nothing to do with whom a 12 year old is going to identify with and find more believable.

I'm ready for a color blind society right now, let me know when it happens. Hint: it won't just happen on its own.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I think you miss the point.

Do you think some white guy who flies for NW can relate to these kids? I Don't think it's gonna happen.

If the criteria for educating our youth is that you must look like them or have experienced their upbringing in order to be an effective teacher, then I must respectfully disagree. You are selling them short if you believe they are incapable of learning from someone that doesn't look like them.

BBB

 

[John Pennekamp]

"Black History Month"? That in itself is racist.

Why don't we have Italian history month, Irish History month, Asian History month and Hispanic history month?

I have found that blacks tend to be the biggest racists in this country. Yet they are the first play the race card and hide behind it.

 

[Reebo]

If the criteria for educating our youth is that you must look like them or have experienced their upbringing in order to be an effective teacher, then I must respectfully disagree. You are selling them short if you believe they are incapable of learning from someone that doesn't look like them.

BBB

I see your point, but how many times when you were in school did you tuned out some guy who was just rambling on about some vocation. You couldn't wait for lunch, or maybe you were dreaming about how to get into Betty Sue's pants.

Someone of the same color or creed goes along way with these kids. Many have never flown and can't believe some bald guy who looks like Micheal Jordan is actually a Pilot

 

[Reebo]

"Black History Month"? That in itself is racist.

Maybe if schools taught more about "Black History" than Slavery and the Civil War, "Black History" month wouldn't be needed.

 

[Reebo]

Why don't we have Italian history month, Irish History month, Asian History month and Hispanic history month?

Ever heard of St. Patricks day? Cinco de Mayo? Chinese New Year? Yom Kippur? Need I go on?

You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder with "ANYTHING" that has to do with Blacks.

What's your "REAL" agenda?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Maybe if schools taught more about "Black History" than Slavery and the Civil War, "Black History" month wouldn't be needed.

Amen Reebo!! BTW who told you that you look like Mike?:laugh: Dont have me find one of my pictures of you and post that.

How's the job treating you very well I hope.

WD

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ever heard of St. Patricks day? Cinco de Mayo? Chinese New Year? Yom Kippur? Need I go on?

You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder with "ANYTHING" that has to do with Blacks.

What's your "REAL" agenda?

Double Amen!! You on a roll tonight...

WD

 

[sat74]

I joined OBAP a few years ago because I was told it will help me get hired at CAL, DAL etc.. and im white. Well, that turned out to be a waste of money. Then I got an email from the clown who runs OBAP saying to send him a resume for FedEx ASAP! I did and asked him how he could get around all the other insider/meet & greet/flown to the moon and back requirements they have and heard NOTHING back!

On the other hand, a very good (black) friend of mine is also a member who went to a OBAP spondered hiring fair for CAL last year, which turned out to be a complete waste of his time. That also led to no job opportunities despite his more than qualified credentials.

 

[THEHANGAR]

RANT TIME or one long run on sentence.....

As someone who finished a b.s. and a masters in chemistry and has worked outside of aviation for a few years before becoming a pilot, I'd have to say it (aviation) is the most prejudiced and on occasion racist environment I have ever seen. I don't know if its a lack of education(which hinders lateral thinking), ignorance(tendencies from the thoughtless or the single-minded), stupidity(under-performance in brain activity) or how most people were raised(environment) but prejudice and hate is thriving in our crew rooms and fbo's. In my ten years as a pilot from 135, 91, 61, 141, 121, 91k. I have positively only flown with only 3 black pilots and maybe 8 female pilots. With no black or female, chief pilots or D.O.'s at the companies I've worked for. The combined pilot workforces of the companies I've worked for is about 10,000. While these numbers don't directly indicate anything other than a low number of these groups attracted to aviation in general. It's the reaction which colors the picture. With numbers like these why do so many white male pilots complain about minorities and women taking their jobs? Or even getting them unfairly? Considering, in years past, blacks were not allowed to get many of these jobs or an education for that matter. Which in turn directly limits their ability to get them now.

Also I'm sorry to burst anyones bubble but its not JUST blacks that benefit from "unfair" Affirmative Action sort of advancement. In fact, from first hand experience, "Affirmative Action" is also happening in your local Universities and Med Schools. It may not be an enacted law, but someone is looking out for you. In this case for its for WHITE, Hispanic and Black students. It is well known that most graduate/medical school interview committees for science and engineering colleges will limit the number of Asians (Indian, Chinese, Pakistani etc..) they accept at some point, in order to get more WHITE, Black and Hispanic students. Why? Because if they didn't our Medical Schools and Engineering Grads would be overwhelmingly Asian... which in most cases this just prevents them from being ALL Asian. In these cases some of the better students aren't getting the nod all the time.

Lets not forget that it was years of prejudice which allowed whites to move up the the corporate ladder without having to compete against the best or the most qualified because the best minorities either weren't allowed to or didn't have the good ol' boy network to fall back on. You know the story... I'm gonna work for my "daddy's carrier" when I grow up.

Certain outspoken and generally White republican Americans seem to want everyone to know that they built this country and it is what it is today only because of that. To forget the facts that the genocide of Indians(in the millions) and free labor (by the brutal enslavement of an entire race), is what also allowed this country to flourish. To ignore these facts is extremely racist on many levels. We spend many hours a day loving the heroics of the "Forefathers", "Founding Fathers" our "Father's Fathers" and the "Flags of our Fathers".
Lets interject real history and not revise history in to the quintessential American dream. American history has been white washed into apple pie and baseball. While many great and wonderful things have been done by white Americans lets not forget those "Fathers" of ours were enslaving blacks and killing the Natives of this country. History needs to reflect that... that way we don't fall into the trap of arrogance and self-righteousness. We SCREAM about "illegal" aliens these days without ANY moral shame. Everyone who's come to this country from 1490 until the United States of America was formed came here "illegally". Whites didn't come here with altruistic goals in mind, they came to benefit THEMSELVES just like anyone else. English trading companies came to steal resources, Christian Missionaries came to convert the peaceful masses, and People looking to just make a living on basically "free" land. We forced black slaves to speak English, yet Spanish on occasion is anti-American. When we go to war and civilians are killed we call them collateral damage, when anyone else does it we selectively label them as terrorists(depending on if we need something from them or not). So to turn around and judge anyone ESPECIALLY the black community with a severe eye is hypocritical and the height of immorality.

Of course blacks do get advantages and of course some people take advantage of a system, but which group doesn't? We all do.. one group isn't morally superior to the other. We are all human. You can't just point to perceived "black" faults to make points. If you do, then you have to point to the perceived "white" ones. You point to blacks in jail, I'll point to white executives and politicians (who have screwed us 10 times more) who should be. You point to crack, I'll point to alcohol. You point to rape, I'll point to pedophilia.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard remarks that were just out and out racist in the cockpit on a weekly basis... It used to be only blacks, now its Mexicans, Arabs, Muslims and of course women... Wait thats not enough, everyone is a terrorist and a liberal if they don't become a Lemming.. WAH WAH WAH:crying: .. Whites HAVE every advantage IN THE WORLD.. and yet some seem to be the MOST ungrateful.

America AS a WHOLE (ALL RACES AND RELIGIONS) does owe Native and Black Americans. We owe them because they WERE sacrificed, for the promotion and advantage of one group. We owe them the best schools, the best neighborhoods and the best support to take their rightful place next to everyone else in society. This doesn't alleviate self responsibility or motivation in the least from their communities.

Obviously, I think this entire thread speaks to a deeper issue which not only affects pilot groups(but more emblematic) but our society in general. I would only hope that rational minds from all walks of life are able to respect humanity and not judge hastily. No one is perfect nor is any one group. To simplify life and its perceived problems into "black and white", better or worse and good and evil is a dangerous path to traverse as it doesn't leave room for thought, dialog or philosophical differences..



RANT OVER

later..........


I use the terms "race, black, white etc.." in their loosest and least scientific form. As science and scholars realize that very little genetic or scientific data can actually support the exisistence of actual races other than the Human race.. Most if any differences generally stem specific environmental pressures and are not consistent through any "race", or group of people. However, for the sake of discussion and to describe general outward and cultural differences which people do possess, these terms still contain worth.

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

I joined OBAP a few years ago because I was told it will help me get hired at CAL, DAL etc.. and im white. .

who the heck joins organizations in hoping it will get them a job somewhere....get your own job people!

 

[tathepilot]

DITTO

As someone who finished a b.s. and a masters in chemistry and has worked outside of aviation for a few years before becoming a pilot, I'd have to say it (aviation) is the most prejudiced and on occasion racist environment I have ever seen. I don't know if its a lack of education(which hinders lateral thinking), ignorance(tendencies from the thoughtless or the single-minded), stupidity(under-performance in brain activity) or how most people were raised(environment) but prejudice and hate is thriving in our crew rooms and fbo's. In my ten years as a pilot from 135, 91, 61, 141, 121, 91k. I have positively only flown with only 3 black pilots and maybe 8 female pilots. With no black or female, chief pilots or D.O.'s at the companies I've worked for. The combined pilot workforces of the companies I've worked for is about 10,000. While these numbers don't directly indicate anything other than a low number of these groups attracted to aviation in general. It's the reaction which colors the picture. With numbers like these why do so many white male pilots complain about minorities and women taking their jobs? Or even getting them unfairly? Considering, in years past, blacks were not allowed to get many of these jobs or an education for that matter. Which in turn directly limits their ability to get them now.

Also I'm sorry to burst anyones bubble but its not JUST blacks that benefit from "unfair" Affirmative Action sort of advancement. In fact, from first hand experience, "Affirmative Action" is also happening in your local Universities and Med Schools. It may not be an enacted law, but someone is looking out for you. In this case for its for WHITE, Hispanic and Black students. It is well known that most graduate/medical school interview committees for science and engineering colleges will limit the number of Asians (Indian, Chinese, Pakistani etc..) they accept at some point, in order to get more WHITE, Black and Hispanic students. Why? Because if they didn't our Medical Schools and Engineering Grads would be overwhelmingly Asian... which in most cases this just prevents them from being ALL Asian. In these cases some of the better students aren't getting the nod all the time.

Lets not forget that it was years of prejudice which allowed whites to move up the the corporate ladder without having to compete against the best or the most qualified because the best minorities either weren't allowed to or didn't have the good ol' boy network to fall back on. You know the story... I'm gonna work for my "daddy's carrier" when I grow up.

Certain outspoken and generally White republican Americans seem to want everyone to know that they built this country and it is what it is today only because of that. To forget the facts that the genocide of Indians(in the millions) and free labor (by the brutal enslavement of an entire race), is what also allowed this country to flourish. To ignore these facts is extremely racist on many levels. We spend many hours a day loving the heroics of the "Forefathers", "Founding Fathers" our "Father's Fathers" and the "Flags of our Fathers".
Lets interject real history and not revise history in to the quintessential American dream. American history has been white washed into apple pie and baseball. While many great and wonderful things have been done by white Americans lets not forget those "Fathers" of ours were enslaving blacks and killing the Natives of this country. History needs to reflect that... that way we don't fall into the trap of arrogance and self-righteousness. We SCREAM about "illegal" aliens these days without ANY moral shame. Everyone who's come to this country from 1490 until the United States of America was formed came here "illegally". Whites didn't come here with altruistic goals in mind, they came to benefit THEMSELVES just like anyone else. English trading companies came to steal resources, Christian Missionaries came to convert the peaceful masses, and People looking to just make a living on basically "free" land. We forced black slaves to speak English, yet Spanish on occasion is anti-American. When we go to war and civilians are killed we call them collateral damage, when anyone else does it we selectively label them as terrorists(depending on if we need something from them or not). So to turn around and judge anyone ESPECIALLY the black community with a severe eye is hypocritical and the height of immorality.

Of course blacks do get advantages and of course some people take advantage of a system, but which group doesn't? We all do.. one group isn't morally superior to the other. We are all human. You can't just point to perceived "black" faults to make points. If you do, then you have to point to the perceived "white" ones. You point to blacks in jail, I'll point to white executives and politicians (who have screwed us 10 times more) who should be. You point to crack, I'll point to alcohol. You point to rape, I'll point to pedophilia.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard remarks that were just out and out racist in the cockpit on a weekly basis... It used to be only blacks, now its Mexicans, Arabs, Muslims and of course women... Wait thats not enough, everyone is a terrorist and a liberal if they don't become a Lemming.. WAH WAH WAH:crying: .. Whites HAVE every advantage IN THE WORLD.. and yet some seem to be the MOST ungrateful.

America AS a WHOLE (ALL RACES AND RELIGIONS) does owe Native and Black Americans. We owe them because they WERE sacrificed, for the promotion and advantage of one group. We owe them the best schools, the best neighborhoods and the best support to take their rightful place next to everyone else in society. This doesn't alleviate self responsibility or motivation in the least from their communities.

Obviously, I think this entire thread speaks to a deeper issue which not only affects pilot groups(but more emblematic) but our society in general. I would only hope that rational minds from all walks of life are able to respect humanity and not judge hastily. No one is perfect nor is any one group. To simplify life and its perceived problems into "black and white", better or worse and good and evil is a dangerous path to traverse as it doesn't leave room for thought, dialog or philosophical differences..



RANT OVER

later..........


I use the terms "race, black, white etc.." in their loosest and least scientific form. As science and scholars realize that very little genetic or scientific data can actually support the exisistence of actual races other than the Human race.. Most if any differences generally stem specific environmental pressures and are not consistent through any "race", or group of people. However, for the sake of discussion and to describe general outward and cultural differences which people do possess, these terms still contain worth.