Organization of Black Airline Pilots Part 2

[Big Beer Belly]

PCL... imagine we are living in a color-blind society... that's what we are striving for, isn't it? Why would you then demand a speaker of a particular race? How odd? What would be the purpose? Why would the words spoken from someone of a particular race have more relevance than those spoken from another?

BBB

 

[PCL_128]

PCL... imagine we are living in a color-blind society

Sure. And right after that, imagine that we live in a wonderful utopian paradise.

Why would the words spoken from someone of a particular race have more relevance than those spoken from another?

Because the white guy from Ann Arbor doesn't share the same perspective as the black guy from Detroit.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

PCL... the original poster (Psycho) did not ask for simply "someone"... but a someone that was BLACK... not white, not asian, not hispanic, not Irish, not Jewish, not Italian, not Pacific Islander... just BLACK. Of course you knew that, but prefer to appear to be simply a poor reader.

I completely fail to see why so many continue to perpetuate race as a division among us. Why would someone's skin color matter one iota during a 2nd grade presentation about aviation opportunities? The only possible explanation is that many harbor racist views. If we are a color-blind society, then why would Psycho be seeking only speakers from a particular race? I'm confused?

Why would the speaker's race or gender matter at all? Is Psycho suggesting that BLACK youths are only capable of learning about aviation opportunities from other BLACKS? This is 2008, isn't it?

To me it seems clear that the old phrase, "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem" was never more appropriate. Some just insist on perpetuating discrimination and keeping the races at odds with each other.

BBB

Are you for real?!? You really don't know why a speaker's race would matter to a group of kids who probably have never known an airline pilot? Any person can listen to a pilot regale stories about flying and be in awe, but when that person "looks" like him and has had to overcome some of the same obstacles that that kid will have to, the young person can get a sense of "I can do it too." Giving the exact same presentation by a white pilot does not inspire that same sense of possibility. That has nothing to do with racism or discrimination, it's just reality.

From my background in the Marine Corps, I've learned that the black community mostly views the Corps as a Redneck gun club. A white Marine could talk all day about the opportunities of enlisting or becoming an officer in the Corps, but it just gets filed right along with the original perceptions. Again, to hear that same information from a black Marine changes the perspective quite a bit, and lends "credibility" to the person and changes the perception of what they would normally expect. Becoming a Marine is no longer hypothetical when there are career black Marines standing in front of you. If you don't understand that sociological phenomenon, then you probably just don't want to believe it.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Are you for real?!?

I'm for real Phrogs. Apparently raised color-blind and raising my children the same way.

You must think the civil rights struggle was just in a history book, or the words of MLK just some flowery sermon to be dismissed... but tough Marines like you live in the "real world".

How many centuries are you going to let pass till you think we're "ready" for a color-blind society?

BBB

 

[Phrogs4ever]

OK, fine, Cut n Paste time then...

Several posters challenged my use of the word "discriminatory" to describe OBAP. Here is the definition:
Clearly OBAP does discriminate, inasmuch as their mission statement is specific to the promotion of Black pilots. Not any pilots, but specifically Black pilots. That is a distinction, setting a group of pilots apart from the general population of pilots. Here is OBAP's "Goal" from their web site:

Not all discriminations are bad. I belong to the "American Bonanza Society." If you own a Mooney, or Cirrus, you are welcome to join us. But you can expect us to tell you our airplanes are better, faster, bigger, etc... and you will only find coverage of Beechcraft in our magazine. We discriminate, but we do not exclude. This is kinda where I think OBAP is going with their discriminatory intent. It is a distinction with no harm being intended.

It seems many people get the word "discrimination" confused with the term "racist," which is defined as follows:


Again, I have no real concern about OBAP's operations. I've met some proud members who were good folks and I am grateful for their efforts to promote aviation, especially to kids that can benefit from the exposure.

I'm probably the only person on this web board who has had the Klan burn a cross in their yard. It takes forever for the grass to grow back after idiots get gas all over your lawn. I've seen racism from both sides and it is dumb and ugly regardless of who practices it.

I just kinda think "Black" as a descriptor of a ethnicity is outdated and anachronistic. As often as not, a "Black" pilot is from the Islands, Africa, America - with ancestors from Africa, British, and from the Pacific Islands. I've flown with every sort of variation of ethnicity and nationality and none of my friends seemed to think of themselves as "Black."

It seems like kids can identify with anyone who is patient, friendly, interesting and charitable. Maybe I just grew up in too diverse a World and just can't imagine folks defining who they are by a flawed definition of their ancestral ethnicity.

No, I would say that OBAP clearly does not discriminate. Just because some of the mission statements specifically relate to the advancement of education and a career in aviation for blacks, it does not discriminate against others. OBAP does have white members; you just have to believe in and support the goals of the organization. OBAP does not discriminate against donors, whether corportate, government, or individuals. OBAP does not discriminate against participants in its programs, or the audience of its information programs. Do you think they show up to a public school and kick the non-black kids out of the room? White pilots have received scholarships, attended conventions, participated in ACE camps, pay dues, basically, are part of the organization. OBAP is not any more exclusive than APTAP (look it up). The name has more historical significance than anything. Their purpose is not about division, as you would imply, but about inclusion.

Some of you think that in today's age organizations like this are not necessary. I can't believe that as long as less than 2% of all airline pilots are black. What solution would you rather have, the government arbitrarily deciding how many black pilots an airline should have, or individuals spending their own time and resources to inform and encourage young students to begin thinking about a career in aviation? Which will lead to more private pilots, which will lead to more regional pilots, which will lead to more major airline pilots, and that whole 2% thing will take care of itself over time the right way, through qualification.

 

[Reebo]

PCL... the original poster (Psycho) did not ask for simply "someone"... but a someone that was BLACK... not white, not asian, not hispanic, not Irish, not Jewish, not Italian, not Pacific Islander... just BLACK. Of course you knew that, but prefer to appear to be simply a poor reader.

I completely fail to see why so many continue to perpetuate race as a division among us. Why would someone's skin color matter one iota during a 2nd grade presentation about aviation opportunities? The only possible explanation is that many harbor racist views. If we are a color-blind society, then why would Psycho be seeking only speakers from a particular race? I'm confused?

Why would the speaker's race or gender matter at all? Is Psycho suggesting that BLACK youths are only capable of learning about aviation opportunities from other BLACKS? This is 2008, isn't it?

To me it seems clear that the old phrase, "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem" was never more appropriate. Some just insist on perpetuating discrimination and keeping the races at odds with each other.

BBB

I think you miss the point.

Many inner city black youths are raised in single parent households with no Father. There are liquor stores on every corner. Gangs rule the streets. Your choices are to play ball or run drugs. If you're lucky maybe you'll make it as a Rapper.

Maybe you have a TV. What do you see? Athletes making millions with all the toys. Escalades on 24's, Fat Cribs, Bling, all the ladies you want and a shoe named after you. Do you think some white guy who flies for NW can relate to these kids? I Don't think it's gonna happen.

As much as we all want this stuff to end it's not going to any time soon. All OBAP is trying to do is reach these kids and maybe one or two might see that there are other opportunities out there.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

I'm for real Phrogs. Apparently raised color-blind and raising my children the same way.

You must think the civil rights struggle was just in a history book, or the words of MLK just some flowery sermon to be dismissed... but tough Marines like you live in the "real world".

How many centuries are you going to let pass till you think we're "ready" for a color-blind society?

BBB

A color blind world has nothing to do with whom a 12 year old is going to identify with and find more believable.

I'm ready for a color blind society right now, let me know when it happens. Hint: it won't just happen on its own.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I think you miss the point.

Do you think some white guy who flies for NW can relate to these kids? I Don't think it's gonna happen.

If the criteria for educating our youth is that you must look like them or have experienced their upbringing in order to be an effective teacher, then I must respectfully disagree. You are selling them short if you believe they are incapable of learning from someone that doesn't look like them.

BBB

 

[John Pennekamp]

"Black History Month"? That in itself is racist.

Why don't we have Italian history month, Irish History month, Asian History month and Hispanic history month?

I have found that blacks tend to be the biggest racists in this country. Yet they are the first play the race card and hide behind it.

 

[Reebo]

If the criteria for educating our youth is that you must look like them or have experienced their upbringing in order to be an effective teacher, then I must respectfully disagree. You are selling them short if you believe they are incapable of learning from someone that doesn't look like them.

BBB

I see your point, but how many times when you were in school did you tuned out some guy who was just rambling on about some vocation. You couldn't wait for lunch, or maybe you were dreaming about how to get into Betty Sue's pants.

Someone of the same color or creed goes along way with these kids. Many have never flown and can't believe some bald guy who looks like Micheal Jordan is actually a Pilot

 

[Reebo]

"Black History Month"? That in itself is racist.

Maybe if schools taught more about "Black History" than Slavery and the Civil War, "Black History" month wouldn't be needed.

 

[Reebo]

Why don't we have Italian history month, Irish History month, Asian History month and Hispanic history month?

Ever heard of St. Patricks day? Cinco de Mayo? Chinese New Year? Yom Kippur? Need I go on?

You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder with "ANYTHING" that has to do with Blacks.

What's your "REAL" agenda?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Maybe if schools taught more about "Black History" than Slavery and the Civil War, "Black History" month wouldn't be needed.

Amen Reebo!! BTW who told you that you look like Mike?:laugh: Dont have me find one of my pictures of you and post that.

How's the job treating you very well I hope.

WD

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ever heard of St. Patricks day? Cinco de Mayo? Chinese New Year? Yom Kippur? Need I go on?

You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder with "ANYTHING" that has to do with Blacks.

What's your "REAL" agenda?

Double Amen!! You on a roll tonight...

WD

 

[sat74]

I joined OBAP a few years ago because I was told it will help me get hired at CAL, DAL etc.. and im white. Well, that turned out to be a waste of money. Then I got an email from the clown who runs OBAP saying to send him a resume for FedEx ASAP! I did and asked him how he could get around all the other insider/meet & greet/flown to the moon and back requirements they have and heard NOTHING back!

On the other hand, a very good (black) friend of mine is also a member who went to a OBAP spondered hiring fair for CAL last year, which turned out to be a complete waste of his time. That also led to no job opportunities despite his more than qualified credentials.