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Orenstein and US Airways

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The idea of a "national seniority list" has been explored inside out for many years. IMO, it is a nice idea that is actually impossible to achieve at this point. We're about 70 years too late.

It would be like trying to make one State out of the 50 we now have or like giving back all of the Indian's land, because we did them wrong over 100 years ago.

It's just not doable.
 
Here's some insight into to what these startups like Freedom and other subcontractors can do to our already low compensation.

Freedom offers the following pay rates to Captains on jets with "more than 64 seats" [Note: since Freedom is brand new all Captains will be at 1st year longevity] Compare the rates to Comair rates for the CRJ-700

Freedom Captain Comair Captain

$55.50 $61.63

Freedom FO Comair FO

$20.47 $21.75

Perhaps you think "that's pretty close", but remember this.

1) At Freedom, those rates will also apply to the 90-seat RJ.

2) At Comair, no captain with less than 15 years can hold the CRJ-700. Therefore the Captain rate at Comair will actually be $96.13.

A Comair FO will not be able to hold this aircraft with less than 2 years seniority, so the Comair FO will earn $38.13.

3) If Comair had a 90-seat jet, the rate would be substantially higher than the 70-seat jet. Not the same.

Comair pay rates are NOT the world's greatest. Nevertheless, the difference is $40.63/hr for the Captain and $17.66/hr for FO. Tht could add up to as much as $58,290/yr for the flight crew.

That's a difference of $58.29/hr in base pay rates for a crew and does NOT take into consideration the burden of other contractual provisions and benefits that Comair pilots enjoy, which increase the "real" cost of a Comair pilot by another 45%.

If the time ever comes when we have to compete for flying with Freedom, guess who will get the contract?

At Potomac, we don't know what the rates will be as yet. We know that both CA and FO are supposed to be paid at Captain rates. Potomac will recognize the union, but the union has no contract with Potomac. They'll have to negotiate one. Will their rates (as a startup) be the same as Comairs 15 yr Captain rate or the same as Freedom's 1st year Captain rate? So much for the idea that when "mainline pilots" fly regional jets they'll be paid at "mainline rates". That's a pipe dream.

BTW the Freedom rate for the 70/90-seat jet is lower by $5.32/hr/crew that the rate Comair has to pay its most junior Captain and FO for a 40-seat jet.

Just thought you might find that interesting. Comments?
 
Target selection

My comment is that I don't know why you are comparing first-year captain rates at Freedom against 15-year captain rates at ComAir. I understand your point, but the reality is that companies with single-aircraft fleets (of jets in this case) allow someone with less than 15 years longevity to get the left seat, and will of course make less money than the person with over a decade in the company.

I didn't quite catch onto what your personal spin is on the matter. I presume, and tell me if I am wrong, that anyone that works for a USAirways Express contract carrier is somehow responsible for the suffering of the W/O's. I don't buy into this argument at all. If you want to blame someone, blame ALPA, blame mainline, but don't dare blame me or anyone else who is flying under your colors and getting paid less than you are for the same work.

Many of us out there are or were furloughed by someone else, in some cases (mine included) from yet ANOTHER contract carrier for USAir. This writer even made the attempt to get on with a W/O, and ended up turning down an interview with another when a better offer came along. Thank GOD I didn't get either one of those jobs, because I'd be on the street. Again.

If I had you wrong, no offense intended... but even if I have YOU wrong, there's someone else out there who thinks a pilot with Chautauqua/Shuttle America/TransStates/Colgan etc. is now the enemy (or always has been from some stuff I've read). Reevaluate who your enemy REALLY is and don't hold it against some other schlub out there just flying and trying to pay the bills.
 
I think there is a real demise becoming on our profession. We are the one's letting it happen, Ornestein starts freedom air and pays S__T to the pilots, but will have no problem finding them. Then on the other side of the country you have Siegal starting up this BULLS__T airline Midatlantic., why do we put up with this S__T, DON'T FLY FOR THEM!!!!!!!!!!!! If you do your a SCAB!!!!!
 
typhoonpilot pilot,

YOU are totally wrong!

And to TWA69 the pilots who go work for these companies are NOT scabs! And in a way you are calling USAir main line pilots scabs. I guess now that you're insulting your own kind you might want to rethink that comment. And you should be nothing but happy since AMR saved your ass.
 
IP,
There are times when we might be upset at an individual pilot for his actions, and other times when it is the fault of the company he works for. I think we all understand the difference, and this discussion is about the companys. Don't take things personally that do not apply to you, and perhaps you will get into a lot fewer arguements.
 
Ummm...

I am not IN an argument. Looks like TWA69 is in an argument, and not one that I am involved with.

What I had to say was evenly worded, didn't insult anyone, and didn't degenerate into name-calling.

>>>There are times when we might be upset at an individual pilot for his actions, and other times when it is the fault of the company he works for. <<<

With the above statement you make my argument FOR me. I don't know who you work for, but if it's a W/O, you have no reason to be upset with MY company. The woes of the W/O USAirways carriers are not caused by contract carriers... Who signed these agreements? USAirways? ALPA? If you are pissed at what's happening at Airways, look in your own back yard, not across the street at another company. THAT is my point.
 
Ornstein is related to Lorenzo.
Lorenzo strated "New York Air" didn't he? Yes.


way to go Brian!!
 
Since ALPA is creating the start-up Potomac (MidAtlantic Airways), which is just like Freedom and which will do pretty much the same thing that NY Air did, does that mean that Woerth and Beebe are related to Lorenzo also?
 

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