ORD Deicing Procedures - UAL vs Gateway

[Weasil]

So we're sitting at ORD this morning waiting to de-ice and over hear an argument between a "Gateway" flight and United de-icing dispatch.

It's -2 celsius outside and actively snowing.

The gojets crew asks for Type 4 only, no Type 1 de-ice, and are immediately told by UAL that this is not a procedure that they can do and that it takes the same amount of time anyway with their trucks.
Not sure what they ended up getting done I got busy but then I heard the same GoJts crew asking the UAL de-ice for the initials of the de-ice supervisor on duty. When UAL questioned them as to why they needed that the pilots stated that this was an FAR requirement that you get the initials of the deicing supervisor as part of the post de-icing communications. The UAL deice guy said in his years at ORD he has never ever heard of anybody asking for this but gives them the initials anyhow.

Is this something they are teaching at GoJets or was this just this particular guy's personal theory on how to de-ice? Does anybody else ask for initials of the de-ice crew? I never heard that one before.

 

[Foxcow]

Well, they only hire the best and the brightest at slowjet.

 

[Sticky]

They have that odd look about them too. Reminds me of the dorks in high school that never could function socially.

 

[siucavflight]

subscribing

 

[n757st]

So we're sitting at ORD this morning waiting to de-ice and over hear an argument between a "Gateway" flight and United de-icing dispatch.

It's -2 celsius outside and actively snowing.

The gojets crew asks for Type 4 only, no Type 1 de-ice, and are immediately told by UAL that this is not a procedure that they can do and that it takes the same amount of time anyway with their trucks.
Not sure what they ended up getting done I got busy but then I heard the same GoJts crew asking the UAL de-ice for the initials of the de-ice supervisor on duty. When UAL questioned them as to why they needed that the pilots stated that this was an FAR requirement that you get the initials of the deicing supervisor as part of the post de-icing communications. The UAL deice guy said in his years at ORD he has never ever heard of anybody asking for this but gives them the initials anyhow.

Is this something they are teaching at GoJets or was this just this particular guy's personal theory on how to de-ice? Does anybody else ask for initials of the de-ice crew? I never heard that one before.

Wow, impressive.... I will say that our procedure (at awac) is to get an employee number... but the whole type 4 before type 1 deal, if that is true that is pretty bad.

 

[Mr Wu]

No type I? Sounds like he wanted to make the news. We require the initials of the guy that sprayed us.

 

[OCP]

Procedure is type I to deice type IV to anti-ice. You need to take the ice off with the type I.
Also it is normal to get the start time, type of fluids used, and name/id of the person doing it at the end of the procedure.

 

[flyer172r]

I always thought most airlines needed the initials of the guy who did the de-ice, not necessarily those of the supervisor like this GJ punk was asking for.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Not to defend the HoJet guys, but maybe by "supervisor", they meant "the guy that oversaw the spraying"?

 

[Arrow11]

Chuck Norris just pisses on the wing when he needs to de-ice, none of this Type1&4 crap. I actually saw Chuck in ORD the other day at the F gates, a Go-Jet Captain stopped him and asked if he had the time...big mistake...if you ask Chuck Norris what time it is, he always says, "Two seconds 'til." After you ask, "Two seconds 'til what?" he roundhouse kicks you in the face.

It was freaking awesome....

 

[siucavflight]

Chuck Norris just pisses on the wing when he needs to de-ice, none of this Type1&4 crap. I actually saw Chuck in ORD the other day at the F gates, a Go-Jet Captain stopped him and asked if he had the time...big mistake...if you ask Chuck Norris what time it is, he always says, "Two seconds 'til." After you ask, "Two seconds 'til what?" he roundhouse kicks you in the face.

It was freaking awesome....

Wow, I thought you still had to be 17 to get a license.

 

[Weasil]

No mention of deicer initials in here. Perhaps it's in their procedures manual?

Here's what the FAA says about post deicing communications...

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...77e4a132186256f9d005701cd/$FILE/AC120-60B.pdf

(3)​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Upon completion of deicing/anti-icing, provide the flightcrew with the following elements:​

[/FONT]

A:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Fluid type (e.g., Type I, Type II, Type III or Type IV) Fluid product name optional for each type of fluid if fluid meets product on-wing viscosity requirements.​

[/FONT]

B:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Fluid/water mix ratio by volume of Types II, III, and IV. Reporting the concentration of Type I fluid is not required..​

[/FONT]

C:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Specify, in local time (hours and minutes) the beginning of the final fluid application (e.g. 1330).​

[/FONT]

D:​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Post application check accomplished. Specify date (day, written month, year).
NOTE: Element D is required for recordkeeping, optional for crew notification.
NOTE: Transmission of elements A-C to the flightcrew confirms that a post deicing/anti-icing check was completed and the aircraft is clean.​

[/FONT]

 

[Mike man]

Just the other day in CVG we asked for Type 1 for de-icing but the ice man said that their type 1 didn't meet the temperature threshold so they would use type 4 for the de-ice.

 

[Weasil]

did they heat the type 4?

 

[DoinTime]

Chuck Norris just pisses on the wing when he needs to de-ice, none of this Type1&4 crap. I actually saw Chuck in ORD the other day at the F gates, a Go-Jet Captain stopped him and asked if he had the time...big mistake...if you ask Chuck Norris what time it is, he always says, "Two seconds 'til." After you ask, "Two seconds 'til what?" he roundhouse kicks you in the face.

It was freaking awesome....

Chuck Norris's urine provides five hours of hold over protection regardless of the prevailing atmospheric conditions. It is also approved for use in freezing rain and ice pellets.

 

[rjacobs]

Just the other day in CVG we asked for Type 1 for de-icing but the ice man said that their type 1 didn't meet the temperature threshold so they would use type 4 for the de-ice.

type 1 and type 4 are completely different products for completely different purposes as was stated earlier; type 1 for de-ice and type 4 for anti-ice. Ive never seen type 4 sprayed to remove ice from an aircraft, will it even do it? Also Type 1 not meeting the temp threshold, I call BS to that since every time ive been sprayed with type 1 they say something like good to -55 degrees, which if it was that cold, my airplane cant even operate. Some things I read on here scare me. The GJ thing doesn't surprise me since they have all the guys from other airlines who got canned for doing the same thing at the previous airline, but GJ forgives all wrongs.

 

[CFIse]

type 1 and type 4 are completely different products for completely different purposes as was stated earlier; type 1 for de-ice and type 4 for anti-ice. Ive never seen type 4 sprayed to remove ice from an aircraft, will it even do it? Also Type 1 not meeting the temp threshold, I call BS to that since every time ive been sprayed with type 1 they say something like good to -55 degrees, which if it was that cold, my airplane cant even operate. Some things I read on here scare me. The GJ thing doesn't surprise me since they have all the guys from other airlines who got canned for doing the same thing at the previous airline, but GJ forgives all wrongs.

I'm not an expert, and I believe you can spray Type 1 cold, but I have no idea what it's good for. However - Type 1 is normally sprayed hot and I'm sure that's what they were talking about when they said it didn't meet temperature limits.

As for using Type 4 for de-ice - well it doesn't say that's good in any of my books - but I guess if you spray it and it works, what the hell. Hot salt water would work as well, but for some reason people seem reluctant to use that.

 

[DX Rick]

We have to get the name of the de-icers dog.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Type 1 can be used as anti-ice; just has a much shorter hold over time then Type 4.

 

[Stiffler]

We have to get the name of the de-icers dog.

We require a note from the de-icer's mom.

 

[Crossky]

Procedure is type I to deice type IV to anti-ice. You need to take the ice off with the type I.

I agree, if it's snowing but you have no contamination of your wing and surfaces, you don't need to be deiced, you need to be anti-iced. You're wasting de-ice fluid in that case. Think of the $$ and time airlines could save by just anti-icing instead of doing both. Though to be legit you would need the de-icer to inspect the wing and surfaces first and declare them contamination free.

Obviously he wanted the supervisor's number so he could report it to someone or hash it out with him later.

 

[Weasil]

Obviously he wanted the supervisor's number so he could report it to someone or hash it out with him later.

No he said he wanted the supervisors initials because it is an FAR that they record them following each de-icing. I never heard of such an FAR.