Options future after mediation

[GhettoBeechjet]

What do you think will happen at Options after mediation fails? I see the following potential outcomes.

1. Status quo everyone continues as normal with no resolution or contract.

2. Strike which would either be followed by quick hiring of scabs or a contract resolution.

3. Quick hiring of scabs replacing all the IBT pilots. eg NWA mechanics

4. Moving flying to the other 135 certificate and slowly replacing the IBT pilots with alter ego scabs. eg Trans States Gojets.

Others??

No flame just curious what folks think will happen and why.

 

[av8orboy]

Go tits up.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

True, it could burn down which would benefit Netjets and most likely Mr Ricci among others.

 

[Frac Cap]

Do you actually expect to not get flamed? You are obviously a troll that is pro management which anyone can see by the direction your posts always go. Who knows, you could be kenn himself trying to scare the weak. But you forget one thing, the weak don't get to vote on this contract. Why don't you ask what the fallout might be with the customers who are about to book their holliday travel, or planning on buying flight time with a company that is about to have a major labor problem right at the start of peak travel. Everyone knows that most of next years sales will, or won't happen at the end of this year. It just won't happen. You will have people rushing to turn in their Jet Pass cards so they can get dependable travel elsewhere.

We are in a service buisness. How can a company try to pretend that they have "the best pilots in the industry" (not my words, managements sales pitch to customers) if all we have left are bottom of the barrel scabbs that couldn't get jobs elsewhere. And with as shakey Flight Options has been, does anyone actually believe that a pilot would want to take a chance and cross a picket line to be forever branded a scabb? It's not like you are crossing a line to get into a blue chip company like Northwest or United that have been around for decades, and will be around for decades more. We are talking about a company that has lost 70 percent of their pilots in less than 5 years. Its a huge gamble that most pilots won't take. But you already knew that.

So quit being so transparent and just say that you are biased, and pro management.

 

[brokeflyer]

you forgot #5

#5. Pay your pilots what they are worth. Otherwise you'll have to re-negotiate ANOTHER golden parachute.

 

[ITFL]

What do you think will happen at Options after mediation fails?

I think owners and card members will be asking questions.

 

[HSDriver]

6. Contract will be ratified and a few furloughed pilots will be called back, or;

7. Ricci will gradually park Options aircraft and seamlessly shift operations to JetDirect Aviation that everyone seems to have forgotten about.


Either way I am glad this is going to come to a head one way or another before the year is over!

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Do you actually expect to not get flamed? You are obviously a troll that is pro management which anyone can see by the direction your posts always go. Who knows, you could be kenn himself trying to scare the weak. But you forget one thing, the weak don't get to vote on this contract. Why don't you ask what the fallout might be with the customers who are about to book their holliday travel, or planning on buying flight time with a company that is about to have a major labor problem right at the start of peak travel. Everyone knows that most of next years sales will, or won't happen at the end of this year. It just won't happen. You will have people rushing to turn in their Jet Pass cards so they can get dependable travel elsewhere.

We are in a service buisness. How can a company try to pretend that they have "the best pilots in the industry" (not my words, managements sales pitch to customers) if all we have left are bottom of the barrel scabbs that couldn't get jobs elsewhere. And with as shakey Flight Options has been, does anyone actually believe that a pilot would want to take a chance and cross a picket line to be forever branded a scabb? It's not like you are crossing a line to get into a blue chip company like Northwest or United that have been around for decades, and will be around for decades more. We are talking about a company that has lost 70 percent of their pilots in less than 5 years. Its a huge gamble that most pilots won't take. But you already knew that.

So quit being so transparent and just say that you are biased, and pro management.

As far as the weak not getting to vote I am assuming that there will be no TA to vote on.
Youre statement about scabbing at Options being a huge gamble assumes that someone outside the IBT cares about an IBT scab list. I don't see ALPA honoring an IBT list. So what career wise would it cost an unemployed charter or corporate guy? Either Options will float and they are ahead, they go to the airlines where no one will care, or they will go back to charter or corporate where no one will care. I think only a persons conscience or lack thereof will make their decision on scabbing.
I don't think Kenn will move to replace the pilots until he has a solid plan b or he can make a lot of money via a failure of the company.
No one is buying fractional right now anyway much less at Options which has earned a reputation as a second tier provider which is why it has shrunk so much. I worked there for 8 years and wouldn't buy a share form Options if I had the money. Why anyone continues to fly on dirty airplanes with frieghter paint jobs that are always late is beyond me. I don't really think sales can go down. You do have a point redemptions will continue to go up.

 

[johnsonrod]

As far as the weak not getting to vote I am assuming that there will be no TA to vote on.
Youre statement about scabbing at Options being a huge gamble assumes that someone outside the IBT cares about an IBT scab list. I don't see ALPA honoring an IBT list. So what career wise would it cost an unemployed charter or corporate guy? Either Options will float and they are ahead, they go to the airlines where no one will care, or they will go back to charter or corporate where no one will care. I think only a persons conscience or lack thereof will make their decision on scabbing.
I don't think Kenn will move to replace the pilots until he has a solid plan b or he can make a lot of money via a failure of the company.
No one is buying fractional right now anyway much less at Options which has earned a reputation as a second tier provider which is why it has shrunk so much. I worked there for 8 years and wouldn't buy a share form Options if I had the money. Why anyone continues to fly on dirty airplanes with frieghter paint jobs that are always late is beyond me. I don't really think sales can go down. You do have a point redemptions will continue to go up.

Yeah, but you have those cool Phenom 300s on the way to replace the dirty Beechjunks...

I agree that treating the pilot group at FLOPS with such disrespect is unfathomable in this type of service business - it makes ZERO sense given that the pilots frequently interface with your customers. How will FLOPS attract "good" pilots once the economy rebounds and the furlough pool is depleted (many people would likely not return anyway)? Who would want to work at a place with such a bad reputation for employee relations? It's quite a shame because I remember when a FLOPS interview was a hot ticket 5-7 years ago. Those days are long gone...

 

[gunfyter]

3. Quick hiring of scabs replacing all the IBT pilots. eg NWA mechanics

4. Moving flying to the other 135 certificate and slowly replacing the IBT pilots with alter ego scabs. eg Trans States Gojets.

B19's perfect work force ....

(What they do)
(They smile in your face)
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)
(They smile in your face)
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)
​

 

[LR24B]

It is all over but the crying...

A wise man once said... "Don't play chess unless you can plan at least 3 moves ahead"

So, I see 2 possible outcomes.

23.5 hour settlement -- Last minute, 29 days into the cooling off period. I see some recalls. We will all try to love each other again...

Or,

There will be a last minute fire sale of the company. This outside organization will buy all the assets except the certificate (This explains the company's reason for not discussing Scope). They will have some pilots in reserve, and quickly hire the rest.

Whatever the company decision, it will need a quick spoolup. Because...

(Sept 20-something) + (30 days Cooling off period) = The busy season.

Only time will tell.

 

[skanza]

you forgot #5

#5. Pay your pilots what they are worth. Otherwise you'll have to re-negotiate ANOTHER golden parachute.

There you go with the golden crap again. Isn't that what *you* want?

Answer this: When you took the job, did you think the pay offered is what you were worth?

 

[brokeflyer]

There you go with the golden crap again. Isn't that what *you* want?

Answer this: When you took the job, did you think the pay offered is what you were worth?

yes, then they forced a pay cut.

I've told you this before...you ready to listen this time?

Gas goes up, mortgages go up, insurance goes up, food goes up, school clothes, taxes, car prices, entertainment, dry cleaning, pets, medical insurance, college tution.

all that goes up yet the pay stays the same. So by taking a pay cut, these pilots are rather upset.

understand yet?

You have a lot to learn about this business. I'd be glad to help educate you. Send me a PM and ill help you out.

 

[dime line]

There you go with the golden crap again. Isn't that what *you* want?

Answer this: When you took the job, did you think the pay offered is what you were worth?

Hey Scumza, how much money have the pilots lost since they were hired?

 

[airjackson]

3. Quick hiring of scabs replacing all the IBT pilots. eg NWA mechanics

4. Moving flying to the other 135 certificate and slowly replacing the IBT pilots with alter ego scabs. eg Trans States Gojets.

QUOTE]


Wow, I almost choked reading this. Here's a little refresher for you regarding the GoJet formation. When GoJet was formed, the IBT was personally invited by the same "alter-ego scabs" you speak of, to come in and organize the GoJet pilots. The IBT couldn't go in there fast enough, despite the fact that the union-represented pilots of Trans States were fighting the formation of that alter-ego carrier.
I was a proud union member of the TSA pilot group during that period. Don't let the IBT spin leave any doubts in your mind. The IBT did the union pilots of Trans States NO FAVORS by supporting a corrupt management and fighting against another pilot union, the Air Line Pilots Assoc.
The irony in your post is stunning, if not intended.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

I was refering to the GoJets pilots as alter ego scabs not the other way around. I think the IBT going to represent the Gojets group was one of the biggest mistakes in the history of organized labor. The Gojets pilots are scabs and giving them representaion gave them some legitamacy. I have been told that HK has continued to shrink TSA while growing Gojets. He has certainly has managed to work the divide between the two unions to his benefit. This demonstrates why SCOPE is so important.

 

[fracjack]

Whoa horsey!

3. Quick hiring of scabs replacing all the IBT pilots. eg NWA mechanics

4. Moving flying to the other 135 certificate and slowly replacing the IBT pilots with alter ego scabs. eg Trans States Gojets.

QUOTE]


Wow, I almost choked reading this. Here's a little refresher for you regarding the GoJet formation. When GoJet was formed, the IBT was personally invited by the same "alter-ego scabs" you speak of, to come in and organize the GoJet pilots. The IBT couldn't go in there fast enough, despite the fact that the union-represented pilots of Trans States were fighting the formation of that alter-ego carrier.
I was a proud union member of the TSA pilot group during that period. Don't let the IBT spin leave any doubts in your mind. The IBT did the union pilots of Trans States NO FAVORS by supporting a corrupt management and fighting against another pilot union, the Air Line Pilots Assoc.
The irony in your post is stunning, if not intended.

Finally someone with some prior union experience, which is sorely lacking @1108.
The diehard 1108 koolaiders are already labeling non-migs scabs. I heard they kicked em off their message board. They lured in the vote and change the rules via NJpilots,paid back dues to the terminated and the company hired them back with back pay plus bought out any training contracts. My guess is the majority of migs also voted for scarah failin against the unions endorsement.
Flops will likely fail and that's too bad, alot a good people union and non union and there is always the intimidated migs who dont support other than $$$ which brings up the real turds who look out for themselves via support to the company in any fashion mgt deems correct.
Sure seems to be some real loudmouths that believe they can intimidate with lack of knowledge,yea ,I got a view of the msg board and so have many others reading the same 'ol drivel from the same small minds.
Whoever wrote about an 1108 possible scab may very well be right in thinking as no one gives a crap about 1108 except 1108
Ricci has a game plan and Ricci will benefit.
Flops destroyed itself with everchanging management and the 1108 is doing the same with the same management. Reality will in the near future show no winner in this game.
On the slim chance of a TA the 1108 will either try to bring harmony to the workforce or they will be voted out like NJ pilots did. There will be so many grievances filed they won't be able to keep up and the Dubinsky mouthpiece will be looking for another victim to further inflate his ego. His arrogance has totally infected 1108 leadership.
All the other fractionals are watching this one close and so far the IBT1108 gives them every reason to run away.
IBT1108...pissin off a planet one pilot at a time, with some outstanding contributions by Flops management.
Flames don't hurt in the virtual world and the same 'ol mouthpieces are gonna call me someone else.They can't stand reality.
Wish the pilots luck, except the true cowards sniffin under Ricci ,the ones with the brown smelly noses.
Two types of ignorant pilots, the ones with Ricci and a certain few in the 1108.

Back to slavin behind the throttles. Have a nice day.

 

[flex*wife]

Answer this: When you took the job, did you think the pay offered is what you were worth?

Not trying to be difficult or insinuate myself into a race I have no horse in, but I hardly see how that question is relevant, helpful or insightful.

In my career I have taken many jobs I knew were crappy jobs but either had to, looked at them as a stepping stone or for some other meritous reason.

My husband in his flying career has also done the same. I know quite a few pilots that have. For all their b!tching pilots are a notoriously optimistic group. As a wife, friend, family member I know all too well of the upgrades are around the corner, new planes on the way, per diem lottery most of you guys play.

Wanting to better ones situation or bring it up to being commesurate with the
industry is hardly the crime you think it is. And a like it or lump it attitude is usually only shared by people who either don't get it or are so resistant to change they are actually dangerous.

According to your logic we should all reelect our POS politicians because hey even though they are doing a crappy job now we were happy when we first voted them in...

I know being a pilot takes a fair amount of brains so I will just have to assume I have misunderstood you because that statement seemed pretty stupid to me.

 

[jetwash]

Bla Bla Bla ........

It really doesn't matter what you have to say or any other trolls who just joined Flight Info.

The TA will be accepted/rejected by those members who supported the union from the beginning by paying dues so the negotiators would be able to do their job.

If you don't like it either pay up so you can vote or accept the decision of the MIGS on any TA that is reached.


I can vote. Can you?

 

[wacoflyr]

Not trying to be difficult or insinuate myself into a race I have no horse in, but I hardly see how that question is relevant, helpful or insightful.

In my career I have taken many jobs I knew were crappy jobs but either had to, looked at them as a stepping stone or for some other meritous reason.

My husband in his flying career has also done the same. I know quite a few pilots that have. For all their b!tching pilots are a notoriously optimistic group. As a wife, friend, family member I know all too well of the upgrades are around the corner, new planes on the way, per diem lottery most of you guys play.

Wanting to better ones situation or bring it up to being commesurate with the
industry is hardly the crime you think it is. And a like it or lump it attitude is usually only shared by people who either don't get it or are so resistant to change they are actually dangerous.

According to your logic we should all reelect our POS politicians because hey even though they are doing a crappy job now we were happy when we first voted them in...

I know being a pilot takes a fair amount of brains so I will just have to assume I have misunderstood you because that statement seemed pretty stupid to me.

This is an accurate and inciteful post. Good job!

Regards, Wacoflyr

 

[ultrarunner]

Have you guys taken a strike poll?

A couple of thoughts....

IMHO, a strike benefits no one in this particular case. Look, this 'aint the airlines where the consumer forgets about getting hosed due to a strike as soon as the next fare sale comes along...

Options is customer-service oriented...and those customers pay big-bucks.

So, with that said, Pilots won't walk because:

1. They can't afford to...

2. No other jobs to be had...

3. IBT is NOT going to pay their mortgage...

They company won't let the pilots walk since doing so is going to immediately alienate their customer base, and face it, those customers can call up Warren and keep on truckin'!

This will get settled.

 

[airjackson]

It really doesn't matter what you have to say or any other trolls who just joined Flight Info.

The TA will be accepted/rejected by those members who supported the union from the beginning by paying dues so the negotiators would be able to do their job.

If you don't like it either pay up so you can vote or accept the decision of the MIGS on any TA that is reached.


I can vote. Can you?

Your point escapes me. I am not a member of your pilot group, or your union. I was simply noting the irony of an IBT-represented pilot group worrying about the possibility of management creating an alter-ego carrier and staffing it with pilots not on your seniority list. In light of the GoJet saga, this is hypocrisy to say the least.
Deliberately inserting false quotes? And you call others here "trolls"?

 

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< This is an accurate and inciteful post. >>>>>

wacoflyr, I think you meant "insightful" ........

 

[wacoflyr]

Yup, my bad. I thought it didn't look rite, um, right. But hey, maybe I was being ironic...

 

[jetwash]

Your point escapes me. I am not a member of your pilot group, or your union. I was simply noting the irony of an IBT-represented pilot group worrying about the possibility of management creating an alter-ego carrier and staffing it with pilots not on your seniority list. In light of the GoJet saga, this is hypocrisy to say the least.
Deliberately inserting false quotes? And you call others here "trolls"?

My mistake with the quote name, I meant to respond to Fracjack whose quote was just more noise but he had your quote inserted into his reply.

The point I am making is that no matter what you or others think, it is the MIGS who will vote and decide on the out come of any negotiated agreement. Anything else is just noise your comments included.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Jetwash do you honestly think there will be a TA to vote on?

 

[fracjack]

jetwashedup

I would suggest that you listen to some of that noise instead of just hearing it.
I hope there is a TA for the migs to vote on and any 6th grader can comprehend who is eligible to vote, that was never disputed.
Please tell us your past experiences with with unions.
Should the worst happen I'm sure you would not want to work for a former non-mig who happens to be senior to you by the fact he had to look for a job before you and would now be your superior. It's a small world out there,but your foolish pride wouldn't allow that to happen or would it?

 

[Frac Cap]

OK troll, you started this thread out of "honest" curiosity to simply poll peoples thoughts on what the general consensus of an outcome might be. Oh I forgot you didn't want to be flamed because you had a purely intellectual curiosity on what people thought could happen. Well it's obvious that you are extremely biased on your opinion to the question you wanted answered. Or is it just fear, disguised as an Innocent debatable question that you wanted to achieve. Interesting how all 4 possible outcomes puts Options Pilots in the lousing position.

So why don't you do us all a favor, and take your transparent scripted crap from FUD and Harrison and leave it in your in box on your desk where it belongs.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

I love how anyone who says anything other than the 1108 will get Netjets contract + or the company will burn down is a troll. I am actually a union supporter. I have a drawer full of receipts from the IBT, 2 pins, a lanyard and a bag tag to prove it. I am a union member now somewhere else. All of my friends at Options are labor and most I believe are MIGS. My own personal hope is that there is a descent contract and that Options not only becomes a descent place to work again but that management and the pilots are able to make it grow and prosper. Maybe then my furloughed friends lives will improve again.
I don't know how my posts come off as biased. I think unlike a lot of what is said on here they are very realistic. The Options pilots are down to their last meeting in mediation. If mediation fails which I think almost everyone agrees it will in this case then what? I laid out what I saw as the possabilitys. The fact that most end poorly for the pilots isn't my fault it is just reality. Most end poorly for the company too. I feel like I'm watching a football game where my team is down by 49 points in the 4th quarter. Just becuse I say aloud that I don't know how we can win this game doesn't mean I'm routing for the other team. I hope I'm missing something and opened this thread hoping for some good news.
Last point I have been questioned as to why I still care. Most of my friends still work there which is reason enough. Also between the dues that I paid before I left and the fact that I stopped working incentive days I am financially invested in this deal. I hope that even though I won't personally benefit from my investment that someone will.

 

[Frac Cap]

Well you are doing your friends a disservice but you already know that. Since you like analogies, ill give you one. Its like you are in the stands at your football game that you talk about and you stand up shaking a sign telling the team that you are rooting for that they have no way to win and that they are going to loose. Not very inspirational, and it does not give the team any encouragement to get up and fight to win.

So I don't think that you are a friend to any hard working Flops pilot, and I think your true motives are suspect. I will no longer encourage your response.