Oprah-Umma-Umma-Oprah

[HawkerF/O]

Back in the mid-eighties Gulfstream did not solicit business from companies unless they had sales in excess of 300 million. This number obviously has changed significantly in the last twenty years and today there are obviously a lot of wealthy individuals that are stepping up to this equipment that have incomes that having nothing to do with a sales number. I knew a guy that had an approximate net worth of 75 million that bought a new G1V when they first came out. Gulfstream could not grasp the thought of an individual spending approximately 1/3 of his net worth on an airplane, but he did it just the same.

Aside from inferior products, it's that attitude that has cost Gulfstream a signifigant market share over the past few years. Gulfstream has great products, but they are not the best. 10 years ago, the Gulfstream products were only aircraft with general recognition as a "status" aircraft. That has changed in the past few years. A few years ago, a casually dressed man (was not an aircraft owner) tried to get onboard a static GIV SP at NBAA. He was denied the walk-through because he did not have an appointment. How silly is that. Today, he is on his second aircraft, a GLEX, and he paid for it himself becasue he did not want to burden his company with the expense. In all fairness, Microsoft could have carried that weight, no problem. Or Walmart; A few years ago they bought a GIV (S/N 1 I think). At the time, support for the aircraft was non-existant from Gulfstream. The aircraft was promptly replaced with a Global. Once again, attitude determines your altitude.
Gulfstreams are nice, but there are bigger, more expensive, longer range aircraft that shame gulfstreams. Personally, I would reccomend a GLEX or 900EX before a Gulfstream to a potential buyer. Seems Bombardier and Falcon have figured out that a big 'ol fat slat hanging out there does more good than bad. Wonder what Gulfstream is waiting on????

 

[Spooky 1]

Aside from inferior products, it's that attitude that has cost Gulfstream a signifigant market share over the past few years. Gulfstream has great products, but they are not the best. 10 years ago, the Gulfstream products were only aircraft with general recognition as a "status" aircraft. That has changed in the past few years. A few years ago, a casually dressed man (was not an aircraft owner) tried to get onboard a static GIV SP at NBAA. He was denied the walk-through because he did not have an appointment. How silly is that. Today, he is on his second aircraft, a GLEX, and he paid for it himself becasue he did not want to burden his company with the expense. In all fairness, Microsoft could have carried that weight, no problem. Or Walmart; A few years ago they bought a GIV (S/N 1 I think). At the time, support for the aircraft was non-existant from Gulfstream. The aircraft was promptly replaced with a Global. Once again, attitude determines your altitude.
Gulfstreams are nice, but there are bigger, more expensive, longer range aircraft that shame gulfstreams. Personally, I would reccomend a GLEX or 900EX before a Gulfstream to a potential buyer. Seems Bombardier and Falcon have figured out that a big 'ol fat slat hanging out there does more good than bad. Wonder what Gulfstream is waiting on????

While I am sure there is room for improvement at all three of the high end companies you have mentioned I think I can speak from experience regarding the difference between Gulfstream and Bombardier. The latter cannot hold a candle to Gulfstream for product support. As a good friend of mine once said, if your going to fly a Global, you better be sure that you only stop in citeis that have over night delivery service because you just never know when you are going to have an AOG problem. They BTW carry a mechanic on all of their flights.

We just happen to operate Both a GV and a GEX. The boss like the GEX cabin but we always keep the GV on hot call when the GEX is out because we just don't know where or when the darn thing is going to breakdown.

As for Gulfstream snubbing a potential buyer? I am sure that all of these companies have their noses so far in the air regarding who they think is capable of buying one of their airplanes that this is not an uncommon event. Boeing is certainly one of the worst offenders of this practice. Talk about rude.

 

[PacoPollo]

Joe Francis (girls gone wild) OWNS a Gulfstream...

 

[HawkerF/O]

While I am sure there is room for improvement at all three of the high end companies you have mentioned I think I can speak from experience regarding the difference between Gulfstream and Bombardier. The latter cannot hold a candle to Gulfstream for product support. As a good friend of mine once said, if your going to fly a Global, you better be sure that you only stop in citeis that have over night delivery service because you just never know when you are going to have an AOG problem. They BTW carry a mechanic on all of their flights.

We just happen to operate Both a GV and a GEX. The boss like the GEX cabin but we always keep the GV on hot call when the GEX is out because we just don't know where or when the darn thing is going to breakdown.

As for Gulfstream snubbing a potential buyer? I am sure that all of these companies have their noses so far in the air regarding who they think is capable of buying one of their airplanes that this is not an uncommon event. Boeing is certainly one of the worst offenders of this practice. Talk about rude.

I agree with everything you say. Bombardier is unique in the fact that they have better products, but can't support them, thus making them no better than anyone else. It is my understand the CL30 is the exception, as that has its own seperate division and they do it the right way with the Cl30. Bombardier could have put the Hawker assembly line out of business with a few changes to the LR60 and support to back it up. The losers at Bombardier never figured that out. I have a couple of acquaintances that operate 601-3R and have been looking for new iron. Bombardier, knowing they are looking, has failed miserably to support their current aircraft, and they both have eliminated ANY Bombardier product from possible aquisition. It's like when Bombardier found out they could potentially sell a new aircraft to these folks, support for the currently operated planes fell completely apart. Someone needs to walk into their support cener with a broom.
As for the snob factor, sure, I bet they all do that. Just not at NBAA. You are free to tour most aircraft, as that is the purpose, they are trying to sell them. Gulfstream took 1 look at Bill Gates, figured he was some wanna-be and told him to take a hike. The other manufactures let anyone come aboard their aircraft, with or without an appointment. And Gulfstream, instead of apoligizing, they blamed Gates for just "showing up". Are you kidding me??? It NBAA!!!!!

 

[Photoflight]

Took a tour of the new G150 cabin the other week and for it seemed incredibly nice...though I've never seen the inside of the real G-birds, just the lowly citation.

I'd heard the girls gone wild guy got his plane repoed...I knew a guy that flew right seat with them a couple times. Said it was the best job a guy could want.

 

[leardawg]

Hmmm... Some of the best hiking, surfing, diving, sailing and cycling in the country; incredible scenery, amazing food, great people, great zoo, great nightlife, world-class museums...

So Jack, what exactly is your idea of fun?

And don't forget Michael Jackson's NEVERLAND!

 

[MMO 0.705]

I knew a guy who flew contract for cosby in the G-IV and he wasn't black .....but he was not a caucasian either.

 

[Groundpounder]

The guy from GGW has a POS G2, N141JF.

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

That maybe true but last time I checked he used a lot of contract FOs and his chief (read main) pilot is black. Clarence B. is his name I believe so it is quite possible.

Clarence is indeed Cosby's Chief Pilot. Based at Jet Aviation/TEB. Cosby does require a black crew, although Clarence has had caucasian crews on board at times. From what I hear, there is no CRM in that cockpit; it's Clarence's way, or no way. As FO expect to operate the radio and gear handle, that's about it!

However, knowing him, I must say he's a pretty nice guy!

 

[psysicx]

Thanks for the info. Maybe the fellow worth $75 mil was going to charter it. And Neverland is in Santa Maria and is for sale.