opinion on side duties

[svcta]

What is the collective opinion on dressing of de-ice boots?

Mx function or one of those side jobs that goes with keeping the a/c clean?

Anyone who has ever done this job will understand why it is a legit question. It is a labor intensive, day long job that involves gloves, scotch brite pads and lots of noxious chemicals.

 

[Hawker800]

Used to do it on our King Air until it got sold. Once every six months. Never really gave it a second thought. Of course this depends on your situation such as compensation and your understanding wth your employer.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

Did it once a month or whenever needed on Westwinds for 7 years. Pretty typical corporate job. First corp job, we flew 400hrs/year/jet with 2 jets, few overnights and 6 pilots. Pretty cush, so I didn't mind wiping the boots and there was a bit of pride I took in have boots I could see myself in. 2nd corp job, 1 jet, 2 pilots, 350hrs per year. No problem. Now, someone else manages the a/c and I fly lots more. No time for dressing the boots, but wish I did. They look like crap!

 

[alaskaborn]

I use PBS Boot prep and Boot Sealant from JetStream Aviation. Here's a link: http://www.jetstreamproducts.com/jetstreamproducts/?sys=Pbs De-Ice Boot System

It only takes me a few minutes to prep the boots, let it dry and then seal them. They always look great and I love to walk by other King Air's on the ramp and see how dull and faded their boots are while mine are still bright and shiny! I think it's definately part of the deal when you're washing the airplane, mostly because it's the finishing touch. Kinda like the Armor-All on the tires when you're done washing the car, right?

 

[sperfly]

What is the collective opinion on dressing of de-ice boots?

Mx function or one of those side jobs that goes with keeping the a/c clean?

Anyone who has ever done this job will understand why it is a legit question. It is a labor intensive, day long job that involves gloves, scotch brite pads and lots of noxious chemicals.

Are you fu(king kidding me, A side job for me is putting office furniture togheter or waxing the bosses 37 foot fishing boat or installing his freaking sprinkler system. Putting a little bit of boot dressing on is nothing. And that is exactly why I am leaving the corporate gig and going 121. But then again I worked for a complete d!ck and yes I'm at fault for putting up with it. But seriously dressing the boots really isn't that hard and in my opinon isn't that big of a deal. And I've never spent more than 15 minutes doing it.

 

[NW Flyer]

It was easier on a King Air than a TurboCommander, didn't need a ladder.

Our mx department was usually staffed with some real winners, good luck trying to get them to wipe their greasy handprints off the airplane after maintenance, let alone WASH an airplane or dress the boots!

 

[TXDA2000]

Typical side job for most TP operators.

Falls into the category of "might as well do it myself, cause I'm the only one that will do it right".

 

[treetop flyer]

Typical side job for most TP operators.

Falls into the category of "might as well do it myself, cause I'm the only one that will do it right".

That's the truth. At my last job, we did the boots on our Commander every few months. Without in-house maintenance, the job falls to the pilots. Just be careful with those chemicals. I've ruined numerous pairs of pants while standing on a ladder wiping the wing...invest in a good pair of overalls and WEAR them!! Also, be sure to wear eye protection.

Good luck.
TF

 

[svcta]

Thanks for the insights. The way our mechanic showed me to do this it takes way longer than 15 minutes. I'm not kidding that it took us probably 4 or 5 hours last time. He will go nuts if the dressing gets put on over any old stuff that didn't get removed....and by his own technique it takes a long time with scotch brite pads and the stripper(not the good kind) to get the stuff off of there. According to him the boots can be damaged in the stripping process. With this in mind, and paired with the fact that it is a long, nasty job.....and further paired that our Mech. would prefer it if the flight crew "took care of the inside, and I'll take care of the outside". What should I tell the C.P.?

And by the way...someone said this was typical for TP operators. What sucks more is that this is a jet(with boots)

 

[Flyboy Sabre 65]

If the mech. doesn't think your doing it right, tell him to do it!!!

 

[svcta]

The probelm begins to arise in that our Mech bills by the hour. He's VERY knowledgeable and takes a great deal of pride in the appearance of the a/c and is of the opinion that by doing these things (to the outside of the plane) he can remain familiar with where it is maintenance-wise. I.e. if he's washing it, he's looking at it and can see little things. I certainly don't mind keeping it clean and sparkly, it only takes about an hour or two out of my month and I hardly ever work anyway. It's just this one job that I can't get revved up about doing.

According to our mechanic you can not just throw more stuff on the boots over the old stuff....the stripping process can damage the boots if not done right and to do the whole job takes about 7 hours.

These are the factors that leave me with my moral dilemma. I don't mind a little side work( I vacuum, stock, wash, do databases, revisions, etc).....but is this a job that should be done by maintenance? Personally, I think "yes" But I'm still open to being told that I'm a slacker. With all this in mind....am I just being a slacker?

 

[AV8OR]

"What is the collective opinion on dressing of de-ice boots?"

I'm partial to aircraft that use a hot wing to keep ice away so ya don't have to dress em at all....but that's just my opinion.

 

[Galaxy]

Are you fu(king kidding me, A side job for me is putting office furniture togheter or waxing the bosses 37 foot fishing boat or installing his freaking sprinkler system. Putting a little bit of boot dressing on is nothing. And that is exactly why I am leaving the corporate gig and going 121. But then again I worked for a complete d!ck and yes I'm at fault for putting up with it. But seriously dressing the boots really isn't that hard and in my opinon isn't that big of a deal. And I've never spent more than 15 minutes doing it.

Wow- Your job sounds crappy. I wouldn't be there long unless he was paying BIG $$$$ for me to be the jack of all trades. If the pay was sh!tty I would call him from the boat dock and told him I am done with the boat but its all red now. (sand all the gelcoat off). Then apologize as I never learned boat waxing in college nor was it shown during my FAA licenses. What a tool--I would have hooked up his sprinkler pump to his sewer line and sprayed poo all over his yard.

 

[G100driver]

Every flight deptment has side duties.

Mine is to ask the D.O. to call the detailer and polish the leading edges and wax the airplane.

 

[TXDA2000]

Sounds like your mechanic has his own way to do it, not neccessarily the best way! I would never consider using scotch brite. If anything will damage the boots in the stripping process, that is it.

Get the PBS system. Use the stripper with paper towels and patience.

The problem with the pbs system is the fact that it does build up and you have to strip it regularly.

The BFGoodrich stuff doesn't build up, but the finished result isn't quite as good. Much less effort involved.

 

[Hopeless_in_GA]

I think a good number of 91/135 ops have side duties, obviously some are more crappy than others.

Personally I don't mind cleaning up the jet after a trip or or washing it when I have nothing else to do. Just like alot of folks we also have various office duties to take care of when not flying. Right now I'm setting up 4 new computers for our new piece-of-an-office.

I don't think I'm above any of these things simply because I fly the jet, but I can say I've yet to be asked to install a sprinkler system or such...

 

[dhc8fo]

I second that it isn't a quick job if you are doing it right. It is much quicker AFTER you do the initial scrub down due to neglect or just continuous layering of the old stuff, but that first one took me ALL weekend and that was just on a 340.

 

[sperfly]

Wow- Your job sounds crappy. I wouldn't be there long unless he was paying BIG $$$$ for me to be the jack of all trades. If the pay was sh!tty I would call him from the boat dock and told him I am done with the boat but its all red now. (sand all the gelcoat off). Then apologize as I never learned boat waxing in college nor was it shown during my FAA licenses. What a tool--I would have hooked up his sprinkler pump to his sewer line and sprayed poo all over his yard.

Yeah he is a typical cheap rich bast@rd that will sh!t on you every chance he gets but thats exactly why I'm leaving and I and pitty the next sucker that walks in the door and listens and believes all the lies.

 

[G100driver]

Yeah he is a typical cheap rich bast@rd that will sh!t on you every chance he gets but thats exactly why I'm leaving and I and pitty the next sucker that walks in the door and listens and believes all the lies.

Repectfully ... at 1700 hours, both of got what you wanted. He wanted and airplane Biatch and you wanted turbine corporate experience. Win-Win right.

Now you will be on to a hopefully a better flight department that let's you enjoy your time off. :beer:

 

[sperfly]

Repectfully ... at 1700 hours, both of got what you wanted. He wanted and airplane Biatch and you wanted turbine corporate experience. Win-Win right.

Now you will be on to a hopefully a better flight department that let's you enjoy your time off. :beer:

Your right, and I was just venting. It has definitly been a good experence learning the ropes and hopefully will help me in the long run.

 

[SCT]

G100, you beat me to it.

 

[Say Again Over]

sperfly said it all in his first post, actually though if you already have a mechanic responsible for cleaning, why would a crew have to do it? Good luck.

 

[maximizer]

back in the day when i was a junior weenie on a two man turboprop, i did all that stuff (washing plane, shine boots blah, blah, blah). it went with the territory. it just depends on your job and their expectations. do whatever it is until you have the experience to do better. or you can be a argumentative little puke and go nowhere. the choice is yours.

 

[GVFlyer]

Your answer was determined by who showed you how to do the task - the mechanic. It's a maintenance duty.

Everyone has additional duties in flight departments, but generally they are flight related tasks such as posting Jepps. I run training for my department.

There are departments, generally smaller flying smaller aircraft, that hire pilot A&Ps. I'm guessing that's not you, but it may be what your boss really needs.


GV

 

[maximizer]

Your answer was determined by who showed you how to do the task - the mechanic. It's a maintenance duty.

Everyone has additional duties in flight departments, but generally they are flight related tasks such as posting Jepps. I run training for my department.

There are departments, generally smaller flying smaller aircraft, that hire pilot A&Ps. I'm guessing that's not you, but it may be what your boss really needs.


GV

not exactly--there was no maintenance staff. and yes i did jepps and training as well. it was a wee dept. one turbo and two scmucks.

 

[onthebeach]

This is wrong, all wrong!

Anybody who tells you to use Scotch-brite on deicing boots is nuts. Judging by this alone, the only thing your "knowledgeable" mechanic is knowledgeable about is blowing smoke. If you have Scotch-brited those boots, you have damaged them. Period. You will get holes in them in no time doing that.

First off, let me tell you how to do this job right. Get the PBS prep stuff and the PBS boot dressing. Follow directions, which are basically, for the Prep: wipe on, wipe off; for the Dressing: wipe on, wait a few, then wipe off excess. All done with SOFT CLOTHS. Job done in less than an hour for wing and horiz stab boots and NO DAMAGE TO THE BOOTS.

Second off, have a private talk with your mech...no witnesses. Tell him straight up that he can either:
a) do the job himself, his way, and absorb the cost, and keep his mouth shut or you're going to tell the boss that he's been doing to his $4M turboprop's boots what is basically the equivalent of sandpapering a condom prior to use; or, b) let you use the PBS as it was meant to be used (NOTE: the manufacturer of the stuff says twice a year is adequate) and keep his nose out of it, and his mouth shut. If the guy balks, just smile, nod, and use the PBS prep and dressing as I have described anyway.

Whatever happens, to cover yourself you need to let the boss know right now that this guys has been telling you to do something that is accelerating the wear and tear rate on that delicate neoprene by about 1000%. I have worked with a lot of guys like your "mech." When the holes start springing up in those boots he is going to tell your boss that you must have screwed something up, and you'll likely get fired. You must strike first and cover yourself.

But DO NOT Scotch-brite those boots!!!

 

[sperfly]

Anybody who tells you to use Scotch-brite on deicing boots is nuts. Judging by this alone, the only thing your "knowledgeable" mechanic is knowledgeable about is blowing smoke. If you have Scotch-brited those boots, you have damaged them. Period. You will get holes in them in no time doing that.

First off, let me tell you how to do this job right. Get the PBS prep stuff and the PBS boot dressing. Follow directions, which are basically, for the Prep: wipe on, wipe off; for the Dressing: wipe on, wait a few, then wipe off excess. All done with SOFT CLOTHS. Job done in less than an hour for wing and horiz stab boots and NO DAMAGE TO THE BOOTS.

Second off, have a private talk with your mech...no witnesses. Tell him straight up that he can either:
a) do the job himself, his way, and absorb the cost, and keep his mouth shut or you're going to tell the boss that he's been doing to his $4M turboprop's boots what is basically the equivalent of sandpapering a condom prior to use; or, b) let you use the PBS as it was meant to be used (NOTE: the manufacturer of the stuff says twice a year is adequate) and keep his nose out of it, and his mouth shut. If the guy balks, just smile, nod, and use the PBS prep and dressing as I have described anyway.

Whatever happens, to cover yourself you need to let the boss know right now that this guys has been telling you to do something that is accelerating the wear and tear rate on that delicate neoprene by about 1000%. I have worked with a lot of guys like your "mech." When the holes start springing up in those boots he is going to tell your boss that you must have screwed something up, and you'll likely get fired. You must strike first and cover yourself.

But DO NOT Scotch-brite those boots!!!

And besides sand paper will probably do a better job than scotch-brite anyway. Or maybe you could just scrape them with a putty knife that would be brillant. Bottom line is just do what you told and shut your mouth.

 

[RoyBoy]

Scotchbrite!!!!?!? Are we treating or resurfacing the boots? how often does this occur? Boots are expensive and require proper maintenance.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/stylespilotshop/30-10-31.PDF
leave maintenance to the mechanics, other duties as assigned for pilots should entail cleaning not maintenance.

 

[stratman560]

Typical side job for most TP operators.

Falls into the category of "might as well do it myself, cause I'm the only one that will do it right".

What he said.

I did our boots on a C560 and then the brite work on the TR's and the inboard bleed air portion of the leading edge of the wings. Its a chore but I agree with these guys in that when your done it sure does look purrrrdy and you feel a real sense of accomplishment! And I always love rolling into the FBO with a shiny airplane thats just been washed! I usually tried to do it every six months. Once coming into spring, like in April and then I'd wait until the first solid freeze (frost) to do it again so all those little 'skeeters and fireflys and other winged insects of the sky were dead and not dirty-ing up my work on the leading edge.