Open Skies Part 2

[Skywest Pylot]

Every country sells arms to anyone (at least until the press hears about it)-isn't that what a free market is according to conservatives?

No one will stop selling anyone anything-cash is king.

After all, we put Sadam there, we put the shah there and so on and on and on.

That is exactly my point. The U.S. government seems open to outsourcing everything else so I don't see MAC lift being any different. $$ talks.

As far as foreign carriers acquiring CONTROLLING stakes, not likely. If the Gov't needs MAC lift to invade Iran, and France doesn't want that, they could say no. So, there won't be a CONTROLLING stake allowed. They can have a minority stake, and give us better credit to buy planes, but that is likely it. How do you think we got most of our troops to Iraq in 2003(?) and Kuwait back in the early 90s?

 

[Raskal]

That is exactly my point. The U.S. government seems open to outsourcing everything else so I don't see MAC lift being any different. $$ talks.

I don't know, my take is a bit different. Global industry has, especially with this government, such power that the open skies agreement looks more and more like foreign control will exist in some fashion. Unfortunately I also see the US getting screwed (and letting it happen) since most of the european labor unions make us look like girl scouts-is a US carrier really going to fight to control a european asset? European labor will fight that to the death, country by country...will we?

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I don't know, my take is a bit different. Global industry has, especially with this government, such power that the open skies agreement looks more and more like foreign control will exist in some fashion. Unfortunately I also see the US getting screwed (and letting it happen) since most of the european labor unions make us look like girl scouts-is a US carrier really going to fight to control a european asset? European labor will fight that to the death, country by country...will we?

It is not the Europeans that I am most worried about (I am still worried). There is a lot of $$ and very cheap labor floating around in this world. We cannot let the camel get his nose under the tent.

 

[Raskal]

It is not the Europeans that I am most worried about (I am still worried). There is a lot of $$ and very cheap labor floating around in this world. We cannot let the camel get his nose under the tent.

Well said :beer:

 

[Dornier 335]

Not to put more fuel into the fire, but what was the deal back in the 70s or 80s with Pan Am and TWA having a hub in Berlin flying to European destinations?

Until recently, UPS also had a hub in Koelln/Bonn operating their 72QF out of there.

Can anyone explain?

 

[General Lee]

Let's look at the past 8 months. Virgin America launched its inaugural flight on Aug 8, 2007. According to their website they serve the following cities: SFO, SEA, LAS, LAX, SAN, JFK and IAD. Do these airports have plenty of slots? Probably not now (Throw some consolidation and bankruptcies in there and that could quickly change) but it appears some gates are available to the right people for the right price.

I know that. On the other, it burns me up to see Sir Richards mug constantly associated with V.A. and there is no question what this guy and the rest of his european buddies want. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ropeans-rip-up-open-skies-treaty-790935.html)

How many flights to each airport? Less than 10? Who cares then? You stated Jetblue got JFK slots and terminals. Yes, they opened a large hub there, and one in BOS, thanks to them getting their FIRST. VA has very few gates in LA, a few more in SFO, one in LAS, etc. Get it? Not a lot of room to expand. A few gates here and there, but that is it. Jetblue did a great job of recognizing an opening, and took it. Virgin America was a few years too late. Now, they could try an airport that is currently underutilized (like PIT or STL), but nobody else is really going for those cities either. VA really can't expand too much anywhere other than SFO, and they are somewhat limited there too.

As far as Branson and what he and his EU buddies want, well, he isn't going to get it, yet. They can buy a part of an airline,and add some credit to the balance sheet, but that is it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[dtfl]

Every country sells arms to anyone (at least until the press hears about it)-isn't that what a free market is according to conservatives?

No one will stop selling anyone anything-cash is king.

After all, we put Sadam there, we put the shah there and so on and on and on.

Its true France will sell arms to anyone. Iraqs AF was comprised of Mirages and their air defense of French SAM systems.

Saying WE put Saddam in power, however, is not only stretching it....it's a bit ridiculous. Saddam and the Bath party needed no help.

 

[dtfl]

That is exactly my point. The U.S. government seems open to outsourcing everything else so I don't see MAC lift being any different. $$ talks.

The US DOD will never let a foreign carriers ownership detract from the CRAF concept. Period.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not to put more fuel into the fire, but what was the deal back in the 70s or 80s with Pan Am and TWA having a hub in Berlin flying to European destinations?

Until recently, UPS also had a hub in Koelln/Bonn operating their 72QF out of there.

Can anyone explain?

1945. Being the badest and most powerful dude on the planet.

Also, having an intact infrastructure and large air fleet helped.

And the cash flow to implement the Marshall Plan.