oops...

[cynic]

Could a person on welfare survive if they would put forth the effort to join a capitalist society? Yes

What if that person is a child or disabled?

 

[gator_hater]

...and any idiot posting a link to the liberal wet dream rant in a regional section should have their head examined.

what happens when the billionaire innovators decide to take their ball and go home, that it just isn't worth it anymore to work for the collective? Sure someone else would step in for a little while, but they too would eventually tire from working for others eventually we all would be looking for handouts. See Greece, Spain, France, Atlas Shrugged etc for examples.

cynic started this thing some of us are just offering our two cents...

 

[Flyprdu]

...and any idiot posting a link to the liberal wet dream rant in a regional section should have their head examined.

what happens when the billionaire innovators decide to take their ball and go home, that it just isn't worth it anymore to work for the collective? Sure someone else would step in for a little while, but they too would eventually tire from working for others eventually we all would be looking for handouts. See Greece, Spain, France, Atlas Shrugged etc for examples.

cynic started this thing some of us are just offering our two cents...

Don't be such a drama queen, O'Reilly.

Take their ball and go home? Please. The only thing that drives these guys more than the coke up their noses is the desperate desire to amass more money. So you Ayn Rand mouth breathers can rest easy...

And please, don't call bankers "innovators." It's an insult to innovators.

 

[AirCobra]

Can a company prosper without government? No. Every billionaire you see in the United States got help. Every single one. They got help in the fact that they didn't have to pay bribes for security, to open their doors, or to expand. They got help that in that they had a highly developed infrastructure to produce and bring their products to market. Any tech company got help in the way their consumers were educated enough to use their products, and employees smart enough to design them.

I'm sick of low intelligent, moronic, and simply tired arguments against government and the poor. They're not original. You probably haven't had an original thought in your entire life. Regardless, this sort of sh*t doesnt even belong in a Regional thread....

Your post sort of goes against the way America was founded and Westward expansion in general.

Let's take Cornelius Vanderbilt. Saw there was a need for a ferry between Staten Island and Manhattan. Borrowed some money, bought a boat which he sailed or rowed himself on most days, and from those humble beginnings created a giant finacial empire. Where was the government? What would happen if you tried to start a ferry service like that today? Would the government help or hinder you? You can't really compete directly with the S.I Ferry because the government subsidizes the Ferry, so its free. The Port Authority would not give you permits to use New York Port Authority docks, or waterways because you have to bid for those, and if you wanted to hire line handlers the government would step in and tell you had to hire union workers. How do you circumvent many of these these things, by paying off government officials to sign your permits. Happens all the time. Various government agencies have set up a system where you need to pay to gain access to markets.

To think businesses don't often have to pay bribes to the government for protection or to expand shows a lack of thought. What have you been asleep for the last 200 years?

 

[Flyprdu]

You make a false comparison. You're saying that a developing economy that was New York City of the 19th century is different than the mature economy it is today... yeah, sorry.. that is true.

But we have 6 times the people living in the US than we did then. As population grows, things will need to get more and more interconnected, much to the chagrin of you 1880s nostalgiaists. (That damn government, taking away my cheap, child labor -- HOW DARE THEY!)

As far as bribes go, the US is pretty good comparatively. You decry government, but take for granted the stability it provides. You want limited government? Try Somalia. I hear at that place you can do whatever you want without the government breathing down your neck!

 

[paid4training]

This discussion is retarded.......

 

[gator_hater]

First off I'm just illustrating that there are two extremes and the correct approach probably lies somewhere slightly to the right of center.

BofA is evil for charging debit fees??

All business (banks included) are in business to make money. The banks and retailers worked out a system to access your checking account through the credit card infrastructure in order to attract customers and lower the amount of cash handling that occured. That system costs money and was paid for by swipe fees, on average 44 cents per transaction. Banks and retailers agreed to this arrangement. Some bean counters then discovered that Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes etc were giving x millions of dollars to the banks and wanted to keep that money in house. So the lobbyists got involved and Turbin Durbin introduced an amendment limiting those fees to 22 cents. Now the banks are forced to recoup that money somehow.they can't legally go to the guys who agreed to pay them so they come to the consumers.

Do you think that the retailers are going to lower to cost of their products or pocket the millions and invest it? that is exactly what the banks were doing but they are bad and evil so we'll let the good guys at Wal-mart keep the money.

Government should provide infrastructure, police protections, national defense, and a judicial system for resolving conflicts but they should leave business to the folks who are willing to invest their money innovate and take risks with out over regulation gumming up the works. For those services we as individuals and corporations should pay a nominal tax. Whether that tax is income based or consumption based it should be a fair and equitable percentage across the board without loopholes and exemptions. Why is that so difficult and unfair?

 

[paid4training]

You make a false comparison. You're saying that a developing economy that was New York City of the 19th century is different than the mature economy it is today... yeah, sorry.. that is true.

But we have 6 times the people living in the US than we did then. As population grows, things will need to get more and more interconnected, much to the chagrin of you 1880s nostalgiaists. (That damn government, taking away my cheap, child labor -- HOW DARE THEY!)

As far as bribes go, the US is pretty good comparatively. You decry government, but take for granted the stability it provides. You want limited government? Try Somalia. I hear at that place you can do whatever you want without the government breathing down your neck!

And using your reasoning, look at the old soviet union and how that turned out!!!

 

[Flyprdu]

And using your reasoning, look at the old soviet union and how that turned out!!!

14 years of war in Afghanistan bankrupted the Soviets...

We could never be that stup.... oh.

 

[paid4training]

14 years of war in Afghanistan bankrupted the Soviets...

We could never be that stup.... oh.

Is that the story you are going to with? Are you sure.....?

 

[AirCobra]

You make a false comparison. You're saying that a developing economy that was New York City of the 19th century is different than the mature economy it is today... yeah, sorry.. that is true.

But we have 6 times the people living in the US than we did then. As population grows, things will need to get more and more interconnected, much to the chagrin of you 1880s nostalgiaists. (That damn government, taking away my cheap, child labor -- HOW DARE THEY!)

As far as bribes go, the US is pretty good comparatively. You decry government, but take for granted the stability it provides. You want limited government? Try Somalia. I hear at that place you can do whatever you want without the government breathing down your neck!

The comparison is valid. It has nothing to do with what year it is. I cannot start something like a ferry service through free enterprise because the governenment would create most of the barriers that I could not overcome through better service, but by paying off the right people.

Try to start an airline that serves a competitve market. The airport won't lease you gates, won't give you landing slots, and no doubt the FSDO will drag its feet on the certification process. The local Congressmen will also lead the charge against you saying your airlineis unsafe or causes too much noise, until you can offer him or her more money than the other airlines, then all of a sudden everything runs smoothly. (See Jet Blue going to Islip)

THe rest of what you said about child labor and Somalia is nonsense. Wake up will ya! The more power you place in the hands of the government, the more corrupt it will become.

 

[Flyprdu]

Poor AirCobra. You just told me I was wrong, didn't explain why, and made up another hypothetical scenario.

If this were a debate, you just lost.

 

[kmox29]

...no doubt the FSDO will drag its feet on the certification process.

Interesting statement. Why do you feel this would be the case?

 

[AirCobra]

Poor AirCobra. You just told me I was wrong, didn't explain why, and made up another hypothetical scenario.

If this were a debate, you just lost.

I think we have all lost. It seems you accept the corruption by saying "well its worse in Somalia". It's all pay to play, that is why small companies often can't make headway against large corporations. They just don't have the money to buy government influence. I can't fathom why think the government should have more power. What should we just accept the way things are?

As far as the debate goes, you won't answer the questions about what would happen if tried to start a business like an airline or ferry service, because you know I am right. How about zoning laws? Why do some businesses get exemptions? Do you own a house? If your parents wanted to move onto you land could you build a house for them. I bet you would not be able to get a permit. I could go on and on. Yes things are different but population growth has nothing to do with having to payoff the government to start a buisness.

 

[AirCobra]

Interesting statement. Why do you feel this would be the case?

The shutdown of Valujet, while AA who had more accidents during the same period wasn't looked at, or the recent lack of enforcement with Southwest.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

The comparison is valid. It has nothing to do with what year it is. I cannot start something like a ferry service through free enterprise because the governenment would create most of the barriers that I could not overcome through better service, but by paying off the right people.

Try to start an airline that serves a competitve market. The airport won't lease you gates, won't give you landing slots, and no doubt the FSDO will drag its feet on the certification process. The local Congressmen will also lead the charge against you saying your airlineis unsafe or causes too much noise, until you can offer him or her more money than the other airlines, then all of a sudden everything runs smoothly. (See Jet Blue going to Islip)

THe rest of what you said about child labor and Somalia is nonsense. Wake up will ya! The more power you place in the hands of the government, the more corrupt it will become.

"Trying to understand." "Just asking questions."