ok.. I give, what did I miss?

[scubabri]

I'm looking at the first, second, third year pay at the regionals. What is driving guys to put up with this? I mean, sheesh, sitting on reserve for 2-3 years, upgrades in 5 years?

Maybe my expectations are a little higher, but I don't get it. Every time I think about going to a regional, it makes my stomach turn, maybe it's because I'm older and I couldn't put up with it for that long.

Is there something I'm missing?

sb

 

[vclean]

Determination, love for the job and hopes it will get better.
Not all airlines.
Seems like it.

 

[rvsm410]

Right On mark!

Nope, your like me and how many others in aviation are starting to feel and say...not me, I am not goig to prostitute myself out for stupid Walmart pay...then new pilot, aviator pipe-line has ben full for years with young guns willing to work for anything to fly a jet, but they are starting to get more educated through web sites like this and are learning that their flight school promises were pretty empty, and the 6 figure glory days are all but gone...at least for 4 to 5 years...

Also more are learning that the regional carriers are much more likely to be a career stop, than a stepping stone, things are a changing. The more people refuse to work for pathetic wages the harder it will be for airlines to fill new positions...of course thi trend has a long way to go to make a real impact on hiring....we all need to spread the word....Dispatchers included.

 

[Nindiri]

90K yearly, 15 days off, nice equipment, no stress when I check out at the end of the day. It's not perfect, it's not the majors, but it's close enough. Definitely better than any other job I might have taken.

 

[a-v-8er]

90K yearly, 15 days off, nice equipment, no stress when I check out at the end of the day. It's not perfect, it's not the majors, but it's close enough. Definitely better than any other job I might have taken.

You're obviously not on first, second or third year pay as the original post said...

 

[RJP]

You're obviously not on first, second or third year pay as the original post said...

0bviously! .Please let us in on your good deal. $, time off AND good equipment? Impossible.

 

[exm3585]

I am at the 10 year mark. I make 79.34 per hour. By next June, I will be at 85.47. . I broke the 100,000 mark around the first of Nov. I do fly open time when I can. I probably made an extra 15,000 or so by doing that. We get time and a half for open time.

My wife is a little upset because I bid and got the 25th-31st off this month and then picked up a 4 day on the 26th. I will make over 2500.00 for that trip. I plan on buying a new tool.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I'm looking at the first, second, third year pay at the regionals. What is driving guys to put up with this? I mean, sheesh, sitting on reserve for 2-3 years, upgrades in 5 years?

Maybe my expectations are a little higher, but I don't get it. Every time I think about going to a regional, it makes my stomach turn, maybe it's because I'm older and I couldn't put up with it for that long.

Is there something I'm missing?

Just to get the thread back on track, It is all kind of relative. A mindset, if you will. During the early to mid 90s it was quite common for guys to be in the right seat for a quite few years. Now we are just coming back into that environment. The go-go days of fast upgrades from the late 90s and early 2000s are ending. Personally I wouldn't want to do it. I'd be looking at corporate as a career if I were in your shoes.

Typhoonpilot

 

[typhoonpilot]

Oh yea, another thing. Guys like the ones here who brag about picking up overtime are keeping the senior F.O.s from upgrades. Greed, ya just got to love it .

TP

 

[spinproof]

Oh yea, another thing. Guys like the ones here who brag about picking up overtime are keeping the senior F.O.s from upgrades. Greed, ya just got to love it .

TP

Yes oh wise triple 7 one! But what one man sees as greed another sees as opportunity!

 

[WhiteCloud]

My wife is a little upset because I bid and got the 25th-31st off this month and then picked up a 4 day on the 26th. I will make over 2500.00 for that trip. I plan on buying a new tool.

If you were home more she wouldn't need that new "tool".

 

[VABB]

90K yearly, 15 days off, nice equipment, no stress when I check out at the end of the day. It's not perfect, it's not the majors, but it's close enough. Definitely better than any other job I might have taken.

And by the time you reach this level, you have to retire in another year. Are we a 30yr Captain at a regional?

 

[DetoXJ]

Oh yea, another thing. Guys like the ones here who brag about picking up overtime are keeping the senior F.O.s from upgrades. Greed, ya just got to love it .

TP

If guys don't pick up open time for premium pay then scheduling just assigns the trips to reserve pilots so get off your high horse. Most senior FO's at Mesaba keep bypassing the upgrades anyway and they are making more $$ than our Metro Captains made when I was a new hire. FO pay has done nothing but gone up and up and up. If you have so much heartburn about FO pay then don't take the job. I just love these guys who take the job knowing darn well what the pay is and then do nothing but bitoh about it. Look in the mirror and you will see who the sellout is.

 

[typhoonpilot]

If guys don't pick up open time for premium pay then scheduling just assigns the trips to reserve pilots so get off your high horse.

OKay, I'll re-phrase, lineholders who pick up overtime are screwing the junior captains out of breaking guarantee . At least in your example. Any way you look at it, flying overtime hurts somebody. The only time that it is acceptable is when an airline is growing so fast they can't keep up with the training requirements and they need some help for a defined period of time.

The reason this is a real hot button issue with me is that I was kept on furlough for many more years than necessary due to senior pilots exceeding the contractual maximum limit. When you see it from that end for a few years you would have my exact same feelings.

Typhoonpilot

 

[VABB]

I'm looking at the first, second, third year pay at the regionals. What is driving guys to put up with this? I mean, sheesh, sitting on reserve for 2-3 years, upgrades in 5 years?

Maybe my expectations are a little higher, but I don't get it. Every time I think about going to a regional, it makes my stomach turn, maybe it's because I'm older and I couldn't put up with it for that long.

Is there something I'm missing?

sb

What's driving this? People will do anything to call themselves an airline pilot, including working for LESS than Wal-Mart wages. Yep, give them a jet and 30 years of substandard wages and some people will do anything, especially if they can announce in the bar that they are pilots. i.e., a Comair pilot who says he flies for Delta. (not all, but a lot)

Look at Comair. Everyone is so giddy about them being a major right now. Big deal, the W2's are still reflecting wages that are lower than the guy driving the Wonder Bread truck. Those guys/gals are professionals, they should be and they should be paid as such, but they aren't.

Sure, some will make close to 90K in a year, but it's going to take them at least a decade of surviving on food stamps to finally get there. And when you add up how much it costs one to get to that point (time, money, effort) most are lucky to even break even.

Ever wonder about this: the worse this industry gets, the more the enrollment at schools like ERAU. This is the only industry that DOES NOT lose people as the wages go down. How many doctors would still put themselves through medical school and residency if the promise at the end was to make less than 40K/yr and be gone most of the month? Oh yeah, and after spending (borrowing) a lot of money to go to school. Answer: not a whole lot!

Years ago, this was a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Now, it's a career for a lot of folks out there. The unions need to step forward and bring wages back up to professional levels. Quit settling for 90K as a 20-year Captain and demand it as a 4th year FO. Are people willing to wh*re themselves out to do it lower? Well, ever hear of a scab list? Do it!

This industry has lost a lot of respect, and nobody is doing anything to get it back.

 

[FN FAL]

...Ever wonder about this: the worse this industry gets, the more the enrollment at schools like ERAU. This is the only industry that DOES NOT lose people as the wages go down. How many doctors would still put themselves through medical school and residency if the promise at the end was to make less than 40K/yr and be gone most of the month? Oh yeah, and after spending (borrowing) a lot of money to go to school...

Yea, I wondered the same thing myself. I found it kind of funny how many of the "brand" flight schools started running the full page glossy adds right after 9/11. Like the one with the single mom in the airline pilot uniform sitting on the wing of a training twin with her two kids and the one with daddy airline pilot standing next to his daughter in the flight safety ad.

They market the down times as THE time to get into the industry and build that flight time.

 

[DetoXJ]

OKay, I'll re-phrase, lineholders who pick up overtime are screwing the junior captains out of breaking guarantee . At least in your example. Any way you look at it, flying overtime hurts somebody. The only time that it is acceptable is when an airline is growing so fast they can't keep up with the training requirements and they need some help for a defined period of time.

The reason this is a real hot button issue with me is that I was kept on furlough for many more years than necessary due to senior pilots exceeding the contractual maximum limit. When you see it from that end for a few years you would have my exact same feelings.

Typhoonpilot

Typhoon, reserve pilots rarely break guarantee and it's not because pilots pick up open time. At Mesaba, a pure reserve pilots making guarantee can pick up an 8 hour day trip and credit 87 hours for the month instead of 75. Thats the only way a reserve pilot is going to make over guarantee unless they are REALLY getting worked to death. I feel sorry for the reserve pilots who gets jerked around so bad he/she flies over 75 (Rare but I suppose it happens here and there). With pilots on furlough, you could argue that pilots shouldn't pick up open time, other than that you are just blowing smoke.

 

[exm3585]

OKay, I'll re-phrase, lineholders who pick up overtime are screwing the junior captains out of breaking guarantee . At least in your example. Any way you look at it, flying overtime hurts somebody. The only time that it is acceptable is when an airline is growing so fast they can't keep up with the training requirements and they need some help for a defined period of time.

The reason this is a real hot button issue with me is that I was kept on furlough for many more years than necessary due to senior pilots exceeding the contractual maximum limit. When you see it from that end for a few years you would have my exact same feelings.

Typhoonpilot

If there are furloughed pilots on the street, then yes, open time is a bad thing to fly. We do not have any furloughs on the street, so open time is 100% appropriate to fly.

You reasoning is a little off base. When they make open time available, it means there are no reserves to cover the flying. And if it is not picked up, junior manning will occur. Beleive me, Comair does not pay time and a half if they don't have to.

 

[TonyC]

My wife is a little upset because I bid and got the 25th-31st off this month and then picked up a 4 day on the 26th. I will make over 2500.00 for that trip. I plan on buying a new tool.

She has every right to be upset.

Overtime pays more because of what you are missing.​

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(Borrowed from CitiBank.)​

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm looking at the first, second, third year pay at the regionals. What is driving guys to put up with this? I mean, sheesh, sitting on reserve for 2-3 years, upgrades in 5 years?

Maybe my expectations are a little higher, but I don't get it. Every time I think about going to a regional, it makes my stomach turn, maybe it's because I'm older and I couldn't put up with it for that long.

Is there something I'm missing?

sb

Make sure you look at FO fifth year pay. At many carriers it stops at 4 year pay... ouch. The CHQ, (TSA?) and MAG FOs are gonna get pissed real soon....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My wife is a little upset because I bid and got the 25th-31st off this month and then picked up a 4 day on the 26th. I will make over 2500.00 for that trip. I plan on buying a new tool.

If you are not careful she is going to finance your replacement with all that OT you are making....

For the love of god, at least buy her something.

 

[wahoo250]

just something to think about. if you can starve off some bad pay for the first couple years you can have a good career. I'd take the bad pay first couple of years if that means when im 35 with a wife and kid i can see them on the schedule and days i want. not my boss. there are goods and bads to every job, its the viewing glass you choose to look through.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If you are not careful she is going to finance your replacement with all that OT you are making....

For the love of god, at least buy her something.

really man...

buying a tool with that $2500?? eventually you might be buying a good lawyer with that extra money!


Good Luck...

 

[TonyC]

really man...

buying a tool with that $2500?? eventually you might be buying a good lawyer with that extra money!


Good Luck...

Divorce lawyers salivate at big W-2's.

 

[Dizel8]

Must agree with Tony, it pays well because of what you are missing.
Now, if the wifey and you were going to use the $ for something, like a vacation, the new baby etc and you agreed, that would be marvelous.
However, in this case, you are going to be, errh, I mean buy, a tool and she is saddened that you chose to work.

Yep, open time, making extra dough is great, until I realize what I am missing.

 

[LoveGun]

To the original poster,

Flying at the regionals sucks when you first start out. However, if you have patience it really pays off, and when I a say patience I mean a ton of patience.

After five years at a regional I am now making about $70,000/year flying an RJ. While that isn't awesome pay, it is still better than almost all of my college educated nonpilot friends. Also, I am off 12-15 days per month and have free travel anywhere in the world. On top of those benifits, I am building up precious turbine PIC time that will help me get hired at a better paying airline. It's really not a bad gig. I am doing a job that I love, and I can wait comfortably for the next better oportunity to come along.

The road to my now comfortable possition sucked. I lived in poverty for almost three years; five years if you count the flight instruction; nine if you count college. Should your early years aviation pay so poorly? No, but unfortunatly that is the reality you have to deal with. There were times when I was an FO that I got really down on this profession. I was ready to quit and get a real job or maybe try corprate flying. I'm glad I stuck it out. Call me a Kool Aid drinker, but I still believe this business pays in the long run. It's paying me OK right now. I have buddies that are in my same possition that are getting picked up at airlines like AirTran, Alaska, AWA and SWA. My turn will be coming soon. It's all because I decided to stick it out at a regional.

 

[Saabslime]

Picking up open time over the holidays when you could be spending it with your family................????? I think that makes you a tool.

 

[Nindiri]

You're obviously not on first, second or third year pay as the original post said...

No, I'm on seventh year pay. The point being that the first two or three years is worth it because of the eventual payoff.

 

[Rook]

yeah slime I agree. Don't chase the money unless no one is eating at the dinner table. I'm a senior line-holder and bid reserve to get the holidays off. Sure i've been getting the 'sand in the vaseline' treatment from scheduling, but being able to go home and spend the holidays with my folks and old friends.
p.s. I'm never bidding reserve again. Lesson learned.

Rook

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

She has every right to be upset.

Overtime pays more because of what you are missing.​

(Borrowed from CitiBank.)​

Great post!!!!!!!