jetflyer
Concerned Citizen
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2002
- Posts
- 2,040
Everyone,
Lots of good points.
The problem with ethanol is that it takes 11 acres of corn to produce enough ethanol to power a car for a year. If you really insist I know where to find the study.
Plus Sugarcane is a good source for a bio-fuel. Brazil doesn't have lobbying groups like the U.S. does. CORN IS A HORRIBLE BIO-FUEL. It has been proven to cost almost more in energy than you get out of it. This is because FERTILIZERS AND PESTICIDES are made from fossil fuels!, not to mention the refrigeration, powering the equipment to harvest the crops etc, all REQUIRE fossil fuels.
Since it takes more fossil fuels to make the ethanol, you might as well just convert the coal used in the process to fuel, or use the natural gas used to make the fertilizers and pesticides to power our vehicles.
The better bio-fuels are ALGAE BY FAR, switchgrass, palm, and several others, but THEY DON'T HAVE POWERFUL LOBBYING GROUPS and EVERYONE KNOWS THE POLITICIANS NEED IOWA'S VOTE!! Oh you have to hate this....
Anybody that wants to learn more about bio-fuels and their progress should go to www.biodieselnow.com. The site talks about the efforts going on now to bring GOOD bio fuels to market. The site even has chat forums like here talking about the efforts to increase bio-fuels. Even soy is not that great only returning about 3 Times more energy than inputed. Algae on the other hand according to Mike Briggs from the UNH will get about 30 TIMES MORE ENERGY than the sum of the inputed fossil fuels. Algae rocks but can't get any government grants or money for investment!
If the problem ever becomes serious then ethanol from coal will hopefully END BEING MADE. It's a waste of time and money.
Wmusigpi,
What you said is what the doomsdayers on this subject predict. They think that replacement of fossil fuels will not be able to be done. That the world will experience famine, great depressions financially, breakdowns of society, and even good ole fun cannibalism in the extreme conditions. They think we'll revert to about 1 billion people on the planet as fossil fuels run out and that the 1 billion will live on alternatives as they increase.
I think we'll just have wars and that they've been planned already. I think they're unstoppable and that many want the wars to occur. The stakes have never been higher because we've backed our society into a fossil fuel dependent state where we're going to have no choice but to fight for the last remaining fossil fuels. Winner takes all. This is a very dangerous game. We better win. The loser will be the one living with the conditions I mentioned in the previous paragraph atleast until their civilization stabilizes at a lower fossil fuel using state. The winners will have the resources and their civilizations will thrive with plenty of cheap fossil fuels for years upon years.
Just wait and see. I think as the price of oil goes to $100 in a year or two and then to $200 in about 5-6 years like Cheney's advisor Matthew Simmons has been saying on CNBC, FOX NEWS, and CNN that Americans will GET DESPERATE and BEG OUR POLITICIANS TO "GO GET THE OIL FOR US". Americans will then elect anyone that promises to make things better even if it requires wars to go get us what we need. The wars will not end. I hope I'm wrong but I think there are people that want this to happen. God, I hope I'm wrong.
There really are just NO serious efforts going on right now to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. We burn through 20.5 million barrels per day IN THE U.S. ALONE! and import more than half of that. Even Alaska will only give us 1 million barrels per day. That will only be 5% of our usage. WE NEED TO DRILL IN ALASKA, but its not the savior everyone thinks it will be.
Shell is experimenting with turning the shale into oil, but they're not going to even have an experimental plant built for another 5 years or so!! Plus they don't plan on getting it up to 1 million barrels a day or so until 10-15 years! Plus the coal to oil plants haven't been built yet and take YEARS TO BUILD! Montana wants to build one but hasn't started yet. No new nuclear power plants have started to be built. What is going on!?? This is ridiculous and is why Roscoe Bartlett, Republican Congressman from Maryland is SCREAMING HIS HEAD OFF IN CONGRESS. He's been on CSPAN about 5-6 times now saying how WE'RE SCREWED IF WE DON'T START DEVELOPING ALTERNATIVES YESTERDAY. Yet we continue to do nothing.
Oh but we're securing Iraq's oil and Iran's and Venezuela's soon. I guess we are doing something I just hope the plan works because they're making it to where we have no PLAN B. This is very dangerous....
Jet
Lots of good points.
The problem with ethanol is that it takes 11 acres of corn to produce enough ethanol to power a car for a year. If you really insist I know where to find the study.
Plus Sugarcane is a good source for a bio-fuel. Brazil doesn't have lobbying groups like the U.S. does. CORN IS A HORRIBLE BIO-FUEL. It has been proven to cost almost more in energy than you get out of it. This is because FERTILIZERS AND PESTICIDES are made from fossil fuels!, not to mention the refrigeration, powering the equipment to harvest the crops etc, all REQUIRE fossil fuels.
Since it takes more fossil fuels to make the ethanol, you might as well just convert the coal used in the process to fuel, or use the natural gas used to make the fertilizers and pesticides to power our vehicles.
The better bio-fuels are ALGAE BY FAR, switchgrass, palm, and several others, but THEY DON'T HAVE POWERFUL LOBBYING GROUPS and EVERYONE KNOWS THE POLITICIANS NEED IOWA'S VOTE!! Oh you have to hate this....
Anybody that wants to learn more about bio-fuels and their progress should go to www.biodieselnow.com. The site talks about the efforts going on now to bring GOOD bio fuels to market. The site even has chat forums like here talking about the efforts to increase bio-fuels. Even soy is not that great only returning about 3 Times more energy than inputed. Algae on the other hand according to Mike Briggs from the UNH will get about 30 TIMES MORE ENERGY than the sum of the inputed fossil fuels. Algae rocks but can't get any government grants or money for investment!
If the problem ever becomes serious then ethanol from coal will hopefully END BEING MADE. It's a waste of time and money.
Wmusigpi,
What you said is what the doomsdayers on this subject predict. They think that replacement of fossil fuels will not be able to be done. That the world will experience famine, great depressions financially, breakdowns of society, and even good ole fun cannibalism in the extreme conditions. They think we'll revert to about 1 billion people on the planet as fossil fuels run out and that the 1 billion will live on alternatives as they increase.
I think we'll just have wars and that they've been planned already. I think they're unstoppable and that many want the wars to occur. The stakes have never been higher because we've backed our society into a fossil fuel dependent state where we're going to have no choice but to fight for the last remaining fossil fuels. Winner takes all. This is a very dangerous game. We better win. The loser will be the one living with the conditions I mentioned in the previous paragraph atleast until their civilization stabilizes at a lower fossil fuel using state. The winners will have the resources and their civilizations will thrive with plenty of cheap fossil fuels for years upon years.
Just wait and see. I think as the price of oil goes to $100 in a year or two and then to $200 in about 5-6 years like Cheney's advisor Matthew Simmons has been saying on CNBC, FOX NEWS, and CNN that Americans will GET DESPERATE and BEG OUR POLITICIANS TO "GO GET THE OIL FOR US". Americans will then elect anyone that promises to make things better even if it requires wars to go get us what we need. The wars will not end. I hope I'm wrong but I think there are people that want this to happen. God, I hope I'm wrong.
There really are just NO serious efforts going on right now to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. We burn through 20.5 million barrels per day IN THE U.S. ALONE! and import more than half of that. Even Alaska will only give us 1 million barrels per day. That will only be 5% of our usage. WE NEED TO DRILL IN ALASKA, but its not the savior everyone thinks it will be.
Shell is experimenting with turning the shale into oil, but they're not going to even have an experimental plant built for another 5 years or so!! Plus they don't plan on getting it up to 1 million barrels a day or so until 10-15 years! Plus the coal to oil plants haven't been built yet and take YEARS TO BUILD! Montana wants to build one but hasn't started yet. No new nuclear power plants have started to be built. What is going on!?? This is ridiculous and is why Roscoe Bartlett, Republican Congressman from Maryland is SCREAMING HIS HEAD OFF IN CONGRESS. He's been on CSPAN about 5-6 times now saying how WE'RE SCREWED IF WE DON'T START DEVELOPING ALTERNATIVES YESTERDAY. Yet we continue to do nothing.
Oh but we're securing Iraq's oil and Iran's and Venezuela's soon. I guess we are doing something I just hope the plan works because they're making it to where we have no PLAN B. This is very dangerous....
Jet
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