OH.. So this is why we got into AVIATION?!?

[100LL... Again!]

And I am a 20-25% tipper.

And any pilot who thinks they are REALLY worth $200k is living in a fantasy world. If you were worth it, they would pay it.

I love having the laws of supply and demand on my side.

 

[720degpersec]

I have 3 words for 100LL : Self Important Twit

No wonder you are happy earning less than 100k...

 

[100LL... Again!]

If I was self-important, I would be happy with no less than $300K.

I left a profession with better income potential to become a pilot. Because it is easier and more enjoyable.

It is your own self-importance that is evident, in that you feel unquestionably worth over $200k. By the way, if you're not earning it now, you likely never will.
If you were really worth it, you would not need a union contract, would you?
Those who get it are getting it because of the contract, which is an artificial price control.

In case you haven't figured it out, I could not care less what you think about me. It is satisfaction enough to have predicted what we are seeing, and to understand the reason why. The shrieking from the religious unionists is far more entertaining than listening to them admit that they are partly responsible for the problem.

 

[crashpad]

If I was self-important, I would be happy with no less than $300K. It is your own self-importance that is evident, in that you feel unquestionably worth over $200k.

Monkey farts! You may someday realize the commitment and sacrifice which goes into becoming a major airline pilot and then change your tune.
You may serve an average of 30 years in this business of which maybe 10-15 years are as Captain at the majors making an average of $180K. That amounts to 2.7 million over those 15 years. Now, divide that by the full 30 to correct for all the years worked previously for long hours with substandard pay in less safe environments. That's 90K a year if you're lucky, good and most of all, a professional comitted to this industry. Which I think you are, incidentally.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Do not talk to me about commitment and sacrifice. I have had plenty of both. More than most of the pilots I personally know.

I no longer believe in my fellow pilots' "brotherhood" nor that of ALPA. It's all empty platitudes aimed at riling up the more emotional element in the profession.

I think it is high time that we all look out for number one. It is what we all are doing anyway, all that remains is to admit it.

If a gojet-type deal was available to me in a city where I did not need to commute, I'd take it in a heartbeat and d-mn the fallout. As it is, the job is probably not worth a commute, and I'm flying 135 and 91 corporate anyway.

For those that take it - more power to them. I'm tired of the bullying. You want scope? Next time negotiate for it. After all, that is what you would tell me, right? If I want a better job, I should go apply for one.

 

[100LL... Again!]

And that BS about getting the big pay at the end for all the years of sacrifice is just BS.

What about all the really great pilots who just never an offer from a major?

I know what you will say: Too freakin' bad, right? We can't all get it.

Aha, then! So it is not about making sure that ALL who dedicate years to the profession get rewarded. It is about making sure that those who YOU think should be rewarded receive it. This hypocrisy is ridiculous.

There are pilots with well over a decade at the regionals who never got the call. There are silver-spoon pilots who slid through and lucked out when the industry was good.

You would protect the mainline job for a 5yr ALPA member over the job of a 15yr regional ALPA member, and do not deny it.

This disparity apparently bothers very few mainline pilots.

The continual failure to acknowledge economic reality is baffling - I would expect this from a bunch of clueless union factory workers, but from pilots this is really disappointing.

You're losing out because management outwitted you. Period.

And yet you want all of us to stay on board your sinking ship, even as you continue to punch holes in it? The current model has failed. There is no real unity. And until there is, the situation will not change.

The idiots here want to enforce unity with jumpseat denials and angry words. They want to enforce employer loyalty with nothing more than the contract. I gots news for ya - in this day and age a contract is nothing more than something to try to get out of. You seen the divorce rate recently? How about the contracts corporations make with each other? The first thing that they do is get the lawyers looking for loopholes.

If ALPA wanted unity, then they needed a unified union, or guild. They needed national minimum pay scales. It's too late now. You may continue to scream and cry if you like, but it is not worth the energy, in my opinion. It is time to recognize defeat, move on, and adapt to the new paradigm.

Hanging on to the past will accomplish nothing. It is time for a new strategy. If you cannot see this, you are lost.

 

[720degpersec]

"What about all the really great pilots who just never an offer from a major?"


Ahhh finally, the truth is out : envious and bitter....

 

[crashpad]

I would tell you if you want to be a major airline pilot, then go for it, yes. I also would'nt scream 'Oh my God!' if you did'nt support the union. It's your choice, but one day you'll be looking in the rearview and saying,"I'm worth every penny and then some, and keepa you fingers offa my pension, capiche".

 

[100LL... Again!]

"What about all the really great pilots who just never an offer from a major?"


Ahhh finally, the truth is out : envious and bitter....

I have never applied for a major and never intended to in the past nor intend to do so in the future.

Also, since I was never a 10+ year regional pilot, I would have been more than happy to have a straight seniority flow-through and wait my turn until every regional guy ahead of me (at my airline) got to the majors.

That is what I meant. It COULD have been possible for me to apply and get hired at a major while guys many years senior to me were stuck at the regionals. I do not care for that arrangement. I would prefer either a national seniority list, or no seniority lists at all.

I saw my time at the regionals as a time-builder to get into corporate aviation, where I am happy with my present situation. Also, there seem to be fewer pricks in this line of work.

I can tell you were very excited about "catching" me. but it turned out that you are the angry and bitter one. I'll keep flying corporate and toasting your demise. I have spent some time in my life being grossly overpaid as well. I didn't make an issue of it - I took the pay when it was offered. But when the party was over, I did not complain. That is life.


What is really funny is how you tie your own sense of self-worth to your compensation. That is really gonna be fun to watch. When mainline pay keeps shrinking and senior pilots have to actually show up for work a little more and the pensions go away - whew!

Maybe I should become a grief counselor! When the concessions become severe enough that guys like you don't feel like a man anymore, you can come vent your frustrations.

I can hear the sessions now: I only make $100K now, and my wife won't sleep with me anymore, and I'm having severe concession-triggered erectile dysfunction! If I could only get back to $120K I know I could get the old Evinrude crankin' again!

 

[100LL... Again!]

I would tell you if you want to be a major airline pilot, then go for it, yes. I also would'nt scream 'Oh my God!' if you did'nt support the union. It's your choice, but one day you'll be looking in the rearview and saying,"I'm worth every penny and then some, and keepa you fingers offa my pension, capiche".

I have always, from day one, suspected that the pensions were never gonna last.
Call me clairevoyant.

And as I said, I do not care to work for a major. I've spent enough time flying 121 to know that.

You seem to have a problem separating what we THINK we are worth from what we are actually worth. I'd love to earn $500k per year flying. I know that I am not worth that much since others can do just as good a job for less.

If you can be replaced by an equally competent worker for less money, then you were never worth what you were getting paid. Period. I'm sorry that this hurts your little old feelings and your unbelievably fragile ego, but the truth is often painful.

The $300K per year pilot can, and will be replaced by cheaper labor. We may not like it, but it is the future. And in the strictest sense of managerial financial responsibility, it is their JOB to cut costs. It is our problem to keep wages high.

Supply. Demand. What a concept!

 

[720degpersec]

Hmmm cheap labor, and no pension. Sounds like 100LL is a communist...

Hey crashpad, do we keep yanking 100LL's chain all night long, or should we release him ??

 

[crashpad]

What about all the really great pilots who just never an offer from a major?
I know what you will say: Too freakin' bad, right? We can't all get it.
Aha, then! So it is not about making sure that ALL who dedicate years to the profession get rewarded. It is about making sure that those who YOU think should be rewarded receive it. This hypocracy is ridiculous.

A pilot with indominable spirit can and will succeed in getting on with the majors, or any dream job. It's not an impossible goal, it just seems like it when you've toiled long and watched others less qualified glide by up the ladder. It becomes a hypocracy when you give up trying.

 

[crashpad]

The $300K per year pilot can, and will be replaced by cheaper labor. We may not like it, but it is the future.

The future is cyclic, pay will go up and down, and then back up and so on.
Now, if you saying 'The way of the future, the way of the future' over and over to yourself, it's time to take a break Howard.

 

[100LL... Again!]

A pilot with indominable spirit can and will succeed in getting on with the majors, or any dream job. It's not an impossible goal, it just seems like it when you've toiled long and watched others less qualified glide by up the ladder. It becomes a hypocracy when you give up trying.

I've seen plenty try and never get it. Then, later in life after younger guys get lucky, they can no longer afford to make the change.

It's apparently fine for you that they might get the call after 15 years while poeple who have paid far fewer dues (such as myself) might get it sooner. I think that this is unfair.

Why should a 10+ year ALPA member be junior to a 4yr ALPA member?

Answer: No good reason.

By the way:
Hypocrisy is not giving up trying. It is called reality. Hypocrisy is when you say one thing but your actions speak otherwise, or you portray yourself as something you are not.

Spelling corrected.

 

[100LL... Again!]

The future is cyclic, pay will go up and down, and then back up and so on.

True. I don't think that it will ever reach the (inflation-adjusted) highs of a few years ago.

Now, if you saying 'The way of the future, the way of the future' over...

I would love to see pilot wages go back up, but the current attitudes and tactics of ALPA and all of the various pilot groups will make this impossible.

 

[AA717driver]

If we had a real national union that forced the airlines to pay us $300k a year you would immediately see flight schools springing up in Delhi and Bombay (sorry, I'm old school when it comes to geography ).

Just as our tech support has gone overseas, so would our pilot jobs. It would suddenly become very easy to get a green card if you had a job offer in the U.S. JMO.TC

P.S.--Tipping 20-25% is despicable. You're giving pilots a bad name. What's next? BUYING a newpaper?

 

[fr8doggie]

And any pilot who thinks they are REALLY worth $200k is living in a fantasy world. If you were worth it, they would pay it.

I guess I'm worth it 'cause they're payin' it.

 

[Snakum]

You gotta give 100LL his due ... he's a die-hard right-winger, and he's not hypocritical about one iota. Far-right, conservative thinking has never looked upon unions favorably. A true 'righty' is a capitalist thru and thru. And 100LL is, I'll give him that. But you guys who are ultra-conservative about everything except your paychecks are the actual hypocrites, unfortunately.

You - "No entitlements ... you get what you're worth ... capitalism all the way!"

Management - "Good to hear ... I have 1000 resumes from people who'll do your job for half what you make."

You - "Oops! We need a UNION!!!


See what I mean? Like it or not ... 100LL is a true conservative. The rest of you are so only up to where it meets your wallet.


Minh

 

[CapnVegetto]

Guys, what has been completely forgotten here is PUTTING ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET. ANYONE that does that, whether they make $300K or whatever, is a MORON. I'm only 27 years old, and I've been into retirement planning since I was a CFI. I've got Roth IRA's now, some gold, and some bonds. Plus, I'm still in the 'low pay' part of my career. Soon enough, that will change, and even more will be going into my future, and more importantly, it will be SPLIT UP!! If one fails, I have others. What are the chances of all of them failing? Not likely.

100LL is right guys, if you have even a $100K a year job, and you haven't planned anything other than a company funded pension, then you are a F-ING MORON. That is just simply putting all your eggs in one basket. It's STUPID.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Big, wet, sloppy kiss, Snakum.

I'll get Condi to smack you one on the a$$ as a reward.