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Oberstar won't back DL/NWA merger....article

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General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Lawmaker won't back Northwest-Delta merger; 1h 3m ago USA TODAY


U.S. House Transportation Committee Chairman James Oberstar said Wednesday that he opposes ongoing merger talks between Minnesota-based Northwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines, saying any merger of major domestic carriers would hurt consumers.
Oberstar, a Minnesota Democrat and a key player in aviation policy, said any airline consolidation would result in a rapid collapse of the industry into two or three megacarriers. "I don't think mergers are in the best public interest, and that includes this one," he said.
Oberstar's comments came during a conference call with reporters in which he confirmed ongoing discussions between executives of Atlanta-based Delta (DAL), the USA's No. 3 airline, and No. 6 Northwest (NWA).
Neither Delta nor Northwest have publicly acknowledged the merger talks, and both declined to comment Wednesday.
Oberstar told reporters he invited Northwest executives to his office on Tuesday to discuss the status of merger talks to avoid operating "on the basis of rumor."

He said the executives confirmed the talks with Delta. The talks are in the early stages, Oberstar said, and the executives told him that they would look for another partner if Delta were to move ahead with No. 2 United Airlines (UAUA) as a merger partner instead of Northwest. Oberstar says he believes Northwest is currently talking only with Delta about a possible merger.
By law, mergers between large airlines must undergo scrutiny by the Department of Justice antitrust unit and the Department of Transportation. But congressional leaders can hold public hearings and exert pressure on regulators and have done so in the past.
Officials at American (AMR), currently the world's largest airline, said Wednesday that a "more rational industry structure" resulting from consolidation could benefit both consumers and the industry. But they stopped short of climbing onto the merger bandwagon.
CFO Tom Horton, in a conference call about American's quarterly financial performance, said the complexity of putting together two airlines makes it difficult to achieve the desired results. Horton said American is watching Delta's search for a possible merger partner closely and contemplating what its competitive response, if any, would be, he said.
U.S. Rep. Jerry Costello, a Democrat from United's headquarters state of Illinois and chairman of the House aviation subcommittee, issued a statement saying, "The history of these (merger) deals is not a positive one for consumers and airline employees." At the same time, Costello said, he'd review any proposed merger on its merits.
Contributing: Dan Reed and Marilyn Adams



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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A little "campaign donation" can fix that problem.
 
None of the lawmakers are going to endorse a merger when loss of jobs are imminent, especially now during an election year. They will publicly denounce it while the DOJ does the approval.

You have to admit though, fundamentally, why would congress ever want a merger to happen. The carriers appear to be doing ok (not great, but ok), there is PLENTY of competion and ticket prices are extremely low. What will mergers do? Remove excess capacity and raise prices? The big problem is the fact that the government needs to get their fingers out of the "airline industry" cookie jar. Let carriers go out of business, let the employees strike, etc. If not, either re-regulate or provide fuel subsidies to the airlines. Oh, and use the aviation and airline taxes to update our ATC system.
 
I find it amusing that so many diehard ALPA folks continue to support the liberal agenda of "protecting the consumer".......

The first step to negotiating higher pay is to return the airline's to sustainable profitability.... Worrying about the "poor consumer" is not my concern....They are already getting a heck of a deal that isn't keeping up with inflation..... Let the airlines get together and raise prices..... That is what we need......
 
Let the airlines get together and raise prices......


In case you didn't know, that is illegal. Also, it doesn't work because there is always one person/group that will cheat in order to get more. But then, I am sure you knew that.
 
In case you didn't know, that is illegal. Also, it doesn't work because there is always one person/group that will cheat in order to get more. But then, I am sure you knew that.

..... I know it is illegal.... The liberal politicians are looking out for the "poor consumer".......

The current system doesn't allow for price raising, and it is hurting everyone.....

I don't understand why so many union folks support the liberal politicians who make things hard for business.....

We can't negotiate for more if our companies don't make money...... Support Pro Business politicians....

Our ability to negotiate depends on our companies making money..... We aren't Govt. employees who can negotiate for more when losing money......
 
..... I know it is illegal.... The liberal politicians are looking out for the "poor consumer".......

The current system doesn't allow for price raising, and it is hurting everyone.....

I don't understand why so many union folks support the liberal politicians who make things hard for business.....

We can't negotiate for more if our companies don't make money...... Support Pro Business politicians....

Our ability to negotiate depends on our companies making money..... We aren't Govt. employees who can negotiate for more when losing money......

Yeah, those conservatives we've had in office for the last 8 years are doing wonders for the economy, and the American worker.

What rock have you been living under?
 
Please, Joe. You don't really believe what you are typing here do you. It has nothing to do with Liberal vs. Conservative. Your form of an Oligopoly just wont work becuase someone is always willing to charge a lower price.

In your idealistic airline market, where should the price be set?
 
Yeah, those conservatives we've had in office for the last 8 years are doing wonders for the economy, and the American worker.

What rock have you been living under?

What is Hillary going to do to make things better for me..... Be specific now......

I look to the Private Sector to help me out.....not to Wash. DC.......

Specifics now, what are the solutions from the other side of the aisle.....
 
Please, Joe. You don't really believe what you are typing here do you. It has nothing to do with Liberal vs. Conservative. Your form of an Oligopoly just wont work becuase someone is always willing to charge a lower price.

In your idealistic airline market, where should the price be set?

So then it wouldn't matter if the airlines were allowed to get together to set prices...... After all, according to YOU, someone would charge a lower price anyway....

So why not allow the airlines to get together and set prices......
 
Oberstar can claim whatever he wants, he is gone soon. Oberstar is a mope politician, Delta and NWA corporate legal teams will ram-rod this

wonder what the new call sign will be

Delta-West

NorthDelta

Merger

???
 
Oberstar can claim whatever he wants, he is gone soon. Oberstar is a mope politician, Delta and NWA corporate legal teams will ram-rod this

wonder what the new call sign will be

Delta-West

NorthDelta

Merger

???

When will he be out? This year? The airlines wanted to merge quickly before the next administration comes in and changes things around. He is incharge of the Aviation Sub Comittee and he wrote a paper on why Airlines should NOT merge when United and USAir tried to do it back then, when he was just a member of the comittee. Now he is the Chairman of that same comittee.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
So then it wouldn't matter if the airlines were allowed to get together to set prices...... After all, according to YOU, someone would charge a lower price anyway....

So why not allow the airlines to get together and set prices......

Because we are a capitalistic nation and oligopoly's work to restrict the supply of resources in the free market.

Back to my question now, what should the price of an airline ticket be?
 
None of the lawmakers are going to endorse a merger when loss of jobs are imminent, especially now during an election year. They will publicly denounce it while the DOJ does the approval.

You have to admit though, fundamentally, why would congress ever want a merger to happen. The carriers appear to be doing ok (not great, but ok), there is PLENTY of competion and ticket prices are extremely low. What will mergers do? Remove excess capacity and raise prices? The big problem is the fact that the government needs to get their fingers out of the "airline industry" cookie jar. Let carriers go out of business, let the employees strike, etc. If not, either re-regulate or provide fuel subsidies to the airlines. Oh, and use the aviation and airline taxes to update our ATC system.

Amen. Amen. Amen.
 
Because we are a capitalistic nation and oligopoly's work to restrict the supply of resources in the free market.

Back to my question now, what should the price of an airline ticket be?

What should the price of a 121 pilot be?

The price of an airline ticket from SFO to JFK is the same now as it was 30 years ago...... Everything has increased in that time exept for the pay of the employees.....

Stick with your opinion, but if you do, don't complain when pilot pay goes down......

Again, why make it illegal for airlines to set prices if as you say someone will undercut them anyway.... I don't see the purpose?
 
The price of an airline ticket from SFO to JFK is the same now as it was 30 years ago...... Everything has increased in that time exept for the pay of the employees.....
Computer prices have dropped quite sigcantly since 1978.
 
...Your form of an Oligopoly just wont work becuase someone is always willing to charge a lower price.

123

Your right about this. However:
- until someone comes into the market after consolidation, to bring competition back up, the carriers will reap the rewards. This cycle can take years
- The rewards don't always come from a change in the price, much of it comes from efficiencies gained in the consolidation...reduced expense.
- With the price of oil, ticket prices can't get much cheaper. Even WN had to raise ticket prices, and slow their growth. The theory that someone will just automatically come it and charge lower fares is naive...there are more factors involved.

I believe that air travel has become somewhat of a homogeneous product...people go to Orbitz, and find the cheapest price. Hell, I even do this! So, that being said... they only way to raise the price is lower supply. Consolidate! This is the very reason lawmakers are against it.
 
"You have to admit though, fundamentally, why would congress ever want a merger to happen. The carriers appear to be doing ok (not great, but ok), there is PLENTY of competion and ticket prices are extremely low."


But how would they be doing if they couldn't keep declaring bankruptcy and ignoring their creditors?

I agree, I wish the government would keep out the industry completely.
 
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I find it amusing that so many diehard ALPA folks continue to support the liberal agenda of "protecting the consumer".......

The first step to negotiating higher pay is to return the airline's to sustainable profitability.... Worrying about the "poor consumer" is not my concern....They are already getting a heck of a deal that isn't keeping up with inflation..... Let the airlines get together and raise prices..... That is what we need......

Just curious Joe, since you are a consumer in all the other categories of the economy outside of your profession, how exactly do you expect this perspective to benefit you? I am not sure why protecting the consumer is a 'liberal' agenda and if that is the case then I suppose allowing companies to run rough-shod over the American people would be the 'conservative' policy.

May benefit you now (assuming you would be part of the dominant carrier in a merger and a survivor of the ensuing job reductions due to capacity cuts) but in the long run you are sticking it too yourself just to enrichen the top 10% shareholders involved in any deal like this.

Something to keep in mind everybody, the fewer US air carriers operating on US soil with open-skies pending, the more room we make for Ryan and all the other low-ball paying airlines from Europe when they invade the country over the next few years. Then watch how your 'conservative representatives' save you from being forced into salaries commensurate with the Ryans' to stay 'competitive', all the while the upper management and again the 10% of the share holders who hold the preponderance of the outstanding shares of the airline laugh all the way to the bank.

Just my thoughts, stop blaming us liberals for every problem that Bush has either caused or can't fix. Hopefully none of this will effect you as all of you conservatives will be whisked away into the clouds any day now.....
 
Just my thoughts, stop blaming us liberals for every problem that Bush has either caused or can't fix. Hopefully none of this will effect you as all of you conservatives will be whisked away into the clouds any day now.....


Just so I don't contribute to this hijack: Oberstar is a schmuck.

Now, Kugel, if you still cling to the "my team is better than your team" political theory, you need to open your eyes.

Or maybe you didn't fly one of the largest contributors to the Democratic party around in their GV (their OWN, not the company's...) for the past 3 years. You didn't see the profligate burning of money (flying 4 hours to the coast to pick up a set of golf clubs) and the disdain for the "unwashed". (Your status in the "community" is determined by how many illegals you enslav...er, I mean employ.)

The people who own the politicians don't give a $h!t about you or I--and the "D" or "R" behind their names doesn't change that fact.

Wake the F#@k up people! :rolleyes: TC
 
The private sector reeally has your interests in mind, Joe.

I look to the Private Sector to help me out.....not to Wash. DC.......

....

You mean like this guy?


Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should loose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.
He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.



I just realized, his name is Joe, too. :confused:
 
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Unfortunately for Mr. Oberstar, DL has carefully chosen to orchestrate this deal at the right time....it's the perfect storm. By the time a final decision to thwart any merger plans comes to fruition, the economy will be in deep doo doo and both floors of Congress plus any State Gov't officials will see that there is no other choice. The US will be backed into a corner to let these giants merge for no other reason than it is necessary to preserve the national security of the country.

Oberstar is doing the proper thing in posturing for NWA at this point. He is trying to get the best deal he can for NWA, plus preserve high paying jobs for Minneapolis. It's possible the merged giants could headquarter in MN, but still maintain the DL moniker. This is a decision that Anderson/BOD will have to look at when considering an option to go with UAL. I think UAL would be willing to cave to DL demands much more so than NWA.

In the end, Oberstar will conclude that it's in the best interest of MN to go with a DL deal if he sees that he has no chance of stopping a DL/UAL merger.

:pimp:​
 
If anyone remembers deregulation - this is very much like the pattern that erupted then. The common thinking was that an airline had to be the largest to survive.

Guess "open skies" is seen as the same threat with the same competitive response.
 
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deregulation has already hurt us now that we are supposed to be unregulated, airlines should be free to do business as they choose and let the market decide who is going to succeed
 
It will be called "Air France-KLM-Northwest-Delta Holdings". We will compete like regionals for new aircraft under the international holding company.
 
What should the price of a 121 pilot be?

The price of an airline ticket from SFO to JFK is the same now as it was 30 years ago...... Everything has increased in that time exept for the pay of the employees.....


Joe, sounds like you are endorsing a Socialist economy. I thought you were an advocate for business.

I think the price of a 121 pilot should be a rate that the market commands. Unfortunately, we have a lot of pilots out there that are willing accept the reward of flying nice, new, large and shiny equipment at an extremely low wage.
 

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