NYT Article on the Airlines...Worst Yet to Come...

[altscap]

General Lee, I was just using your quote as a reference, nothing personal. In a different world I'd be asking you for a referal to get back to DL.



I have also heard that skywest has been talking to Airbus so it may not be too far into the future before the regionals become the next LCC's.

The reason mesa caved on the last contract is because alpa never eally did anything successful to stop mgmt from launching freedom..next thing we know pink slips are flying and the only to save our jobs from street scabs is to take the contract with a scope clause preventing this from happening in the future...of course, mgmt always finds a way around the contract.

Now the AWA crews are mad at us because they think they should be flying the 86 seaters. And they probably should be, but their mgmt didn't acquire the equipment.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

oldxfr8dog,

You have NO CLUE what you are talking about. First of all, we only have 8 777s, so anyone who was a 777 Capt was very very senior. (compared to AA having over 30 777s) Second, how much money do you think each passenger contributed from each ticket per hour? Maybe 80 cents. So, on a trip to Paris the passengers each paid around $7 each (out of $300-400 each way) for the Captain's experience. Also, do you think our Delta 777 Captains sold the fuel hedges and lost an extra $600 million this year? Oh, that's right---I remember one of them saying "hey, let's pay more for gas because it is fun...." Come on. You sound like management's best friend.

As far as our furloughs go, yeah, they probably are banging their heads. But, a chapter 11 would have made their stay out even longer, because more would have joined them. And, do you have a better idea when 500 senior guys want to retire and only have to give 24 hours notice? That sounds like it could park every widebody, and that would really help our financial situation. Do you have a better idea? At least those guys will eventually go, and why do I know that? Because the IRS said so---they don't like the double dipping much either. Taking your lump sum and still working kinda irks the IRS, and a deal was made for a specific amount of time. Many of those retired guys are in their mid 50's, so actually the furloughs will come back sooner than if those guys stayed until they were 60. It sounded like the best deal for a bad situation. That $ucks, but the alternative was worse. Good night.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, with all respect, you brought up how you raised the bar to that hourly rate, then you rebut my reply saying that it was only for 8 airplanes. Make up your mind.
I say the bar WAS raised for all DL a/c types. Obviously, that's good. Whether the rate could be sustained by the revenue is a different story. Management is screwing you? Well, what do you think the dues you pay are for? Really, it's not just for that magazine, it's not that good. I have lots of back issues. You need to take responsibility for your own contract. Management can ALWAYS leverage you by pointing at a company that pays less. Let them compare all they want, shut the a$$holes down, if you think the principle is worth the risk.
You brought the pax ticket price into this; that's a red herring. Hell, if you want to go down that road, let's talk about the 30-40% the government takes!
My point was, you shouldn't rag on the Skywest guys for accepting the pay they do. What do you want them to do? Not apply? Strike, so it won't deteriorate YOUR pay scale? You say you took a pay cut to avert CH. 11. Wise choice. Would it be smarter to accept a pay rate that would ensure the profitability and health of the company BEFORE it faced CH 11? I agree, management screw-ups can make the rank-and-file pay a moot question. I don't have an answer for that. Employees could take no pay and still ride it into the dirt as a result of bad management decisions. Same as every other business around.
And finally;
Those 500 guys should be phased out as soon as the training sched can accommodate their departure. Since there are no new-hires, they should have the time. That way, the furloughees would be back on property ASAP. And I don't give a sh*t for the "IRS position" regarding double-dipping. I'm thinking of those people trying to support their families. But then, I may be a little more sympathetic, having been "on the street" 3 times.
Thank you for an interesting conversation, General!

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Had ALPA converted themselves to a real union and insisted on a national seniority list where the individual pilot is employed by the union I think we could have avoided all these problems.

GP[/QUOTE]Yup, that's the logical thing.
Nope, it'll never happen.
In our lifetime...

 

[General Lee]

oldxfr8dog,


Maybe I was a little too harsh on my saying "You have no clue what you are talking about." Maybe you do. But, there are many things that have contributed to our shortage of cash, and our pilot costs have always been a fixed cost---in a contract for them to see and prepare for. If we are always flexible to their needs, they would be asking constantly, and that is why we have a contract. As I said, pilot pay did not aim this company towards Chap 11, but it didn't help the situation. I accept the pay cut, I do. I understand that we need to be competitive, and right now the company aint doing that great, and high pay rates won't help. And, you're right, it is a tight rope---are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and strike? That is dangerous for everyone involved, and most of the time pilots will balk. But, it really depends on the circumstances. When you have economic advisors that you hired that are telling you Delta really needs the cash, you will probably give it to them. But, Skywest, on the otherhand, didn't. They easily have the cash, and they were playing games with their people-----an example is the agreement the next morning by 7AM with the United lawyers. 7AM? They already knew that they would cave. They knew that the growth carrot would work, and what would have happened had they said no? The United contract would have probably gone ahead with them anyway. We at Delta did a good thing by raising the bar to the highest level and keeping it there for as long as we could. That can't be said of some other airlines, and that is what we are unfortunately facing today. That was my point. Take care.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[oldxfr8dog]

oldxfr8dog,


Maybe I was a little too harsh on my saying "You have no clue what you are talking about." Maybe you do.

Nope, you were right on target. I'm clueless...

Be safe.