NYC workers strike

[wolfpackpilot]

Standyby to be told how effective your dues are being spent, how all the problems are a direct result of the membership.

Kind of like Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House:

"All is well, do not panic, all is well!"

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I Am Warning All Of You To Cease And Desist From Making Any Attacks About Alpa Vis A Vis This Nyc Strike

How any of you have escaped a lecture from the resident ALPA defender Rez is incredulous. Standyby to be told how effective your dues are being spent, how all the problems are a direct result of the membership.

Ouch, that's hurts me when you talk like that!

 

[Boeingman]

Ouch, that's hurts me when you talk like that!

Good...take a hint then.

 

[AA717driver]

Yet you keep paying your 2%.....

Uh, generally, that's because ALPA is a closed shop. Let's see what happens if all ALPA carriers suddenly become open shops...

And, yes, there is little competition for the NYC transit system. An ALPA strike would work if it were a SOS with non-ALPA carriers striking in sympathy.

Never gonna happen. As I've said repeatedly, that train left the station about 20 years ago. The airlines are basically non-union and it's because the people who are now senior at the legacy carriers cared only about themselves and the success of THEIR company while others took it in the a$$. They believed it couldn't happen to them.

Last night, while airlineing from COS-DEN-IND on a couple of UA busses, I couldn't help but snicker at those schleps driving the bus for a 'buck-and-a-quarter' an hour. That's the pay rate they derided TWA pilots for making less than 10 years ago while trying to "save their company".

Sorry, no sympathy here. The ALPA legacy's made their beds...TC

 

[Green]

It has nothing to do with cajones and everything to do with being a public service monopoly.

Unlike airlines, the mass transit system in NYC won't go out of business if the workers go on strike. There is no competing subway system that will steal customers away. If DL pilots go on strike, the airline will liquidate and other airlines will pick up DL's former customers. The two aren't comparable.

Remember, mass transit is a money losing enterprise (no mass transit system in the US makes money) and is subsidized by local, state and federal gov't. Don't complain when you have to start paying more taxes to support these transit workers.

Have to strongly disagree with you pal. Every one of these striking workers is facing potential jail time. They are subject to losing two days of pay for each day they are on strike and technically could be thrown in jail. I don't care who you are, that takes balls. I can't think of a single pilot group that would take that kind of heat.

 

[pipejockey]

Airline pilots are wimps plain and simple.

 

[pipejockey]

I am within one year of turning my back on this profession not because I don't love flying but because I need to earn a living first and foremost. Something I can't do as a pilot. The TWU workers were offered 10% raise over 3 years and the retirement age remaining at 55 among other things and they said no, not enough!! Way to go! They have my full support.

I am going to look into getting a job with Metro North where I will work alongside real union members who will be ever vigilant in keeping upward pressure on wages and retirement. Not my fellow pilots with their Psuedo union (ALPA) who line up and take 30%-50% wage cuts, termination of pensions and detrioration of QOL or in our case IQOL (inequality of life) with open arms, all in the name of "helping" our company. We are a laughing stock and door mats to management behind closed doors. They know they can do anything, ANYTHING to us unchallenged.
It has been almost 4.5 years of this crap and there comes a time when the profession is not worth having anymore. Even if walking off the job means the liquidation of your company. You will be better off doing something else and you will at least have your pride. If I were at Delta, NWA, or any other airline that are still talking cuts, I would walk in a second!! This career is turning into an embarassment when your neighbor who delivers bread in the little bread truck has twice the house you have and earns significantly more.

 

[MedFlyer]

Have to strongly disagree with you pal. Every one of these striking workers is facing potential jail time.

No they aren't. There's no way you could put 33,000 people in jail and they know it. There's no way you can fire them all either. These are idle threats which is why these folks aren't afraid to strike. They have little to lose and lots to gain.

The only folks who I would say have cajones are the union leaders. They could potentially end up in jail. But for the rank and file workers, they have little to lose by striking other than some money.

 

[ferlo]

I love this Jail B.S.. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to tell someone, "get your as* back to work or I'm going to throw you in JAIL!!!" That sounds a bit like slavery. That I know is illegal. Good for the TWU, the only reason managment is having a biblical tizzy fit is because the TWU hijaked their leverage. They assumed that they can what ever they want to these people and hold the guilt of crippling the city over their heads. They eventually called B.S. to that notion and in one fell swoop turned the tables. Now Bloomberg is threatening to enslave union leaders and is peeing his pants with anger and frustration. Welcome to the club, you billionaire Mother F***ER.

 

[kngarthur]

As long as ALPA is the representing union for most airline pilots, this will NEVER happen. ALPA is gutless...

ALPA might be gutless, but at least they're not STUPID!

 

[kngarthur]

No they aren't. There's no way you could put 33,000 people in jail and they know it. There's no way you can fire them all either. These are idle threats which is why these folks aren't afraid to strike. They have little to lose and lots to gain.

The only folks who I would say have cajones are the union leaders. They could potentially end up in jail. But for the rank and file workers, they have little to lose by striking other than some money.

They're talking about putting the leaders in jail!

 

[nonstop]

Many of the differences between their position and airline pilots have been pointed out already in this thread.

One other distinction is they really don't have a lot invested in their respected profession "specialty." Where as any airline pilot, especially at a "major," most likely has a minimum of a decade of experience dedicated just to attain that position.

It's much easier to throw it all out on the line, when you have less invested. Obviously management is well aware of this, which is why they've been able to whittle away our career expectations by about 50% in only 4 years.

Regardless, I have the utmost respect for these professionals who are all clearly risking their career for what they believe (and I agree) is a just cause. It seems to be the only way to preserve a labor profession in todays world. Unfortunately for us, we'll most likely be forced with the same ultimatum except our ante will be a lot higher.

 

[maru657]

The union leaders at the TWU local in New York are not ghetto-thugs. I often think the problems with ALPA and any pilot union is the almost exclusive "white-bread", raised in the burbs or small town attitude of it's membership. Way too much of the collective information was garnered in front of a TV set.
Why should any union ever be denied the right to strike. Take a look at who sponsered that law and then try to discover who owned that politician.

 

[El-Rushbo]

I love this Jail B.S.. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to tell someone, "get your as* back to work or I'm going to throw you in JAIL!!!" That sounds a bit like slavery. That I know is illegal. Good for the TWU, the only reason managment is having a biblical tizzy fit is because the TWU hijaked their leverage. They assumed that they can what ever they want to these people and hold the guilt of crippling the city over their heads. They eventually called B.S. to that notion and in one fell swoop turned the tables. Now Bloomberg is threatening to enslave union leaders and is peeing his pants with anger and frustration. Welcome to the club, you billionaire Mother F***ER.

Wow, ferlo,
I don't know what all those judges and lawyers with law degrees and years of legal experience, city, state, and federal politicians, Attorney Generals, and union leaders have all been thinking for the last almost 40 years!!!!!!! I guess they ALL failed to see the illegality of the 1967 Taylor Law and the "fact" that it is slavery. Thank God for all of us that you, ferlo, a 737/DC-9 pilot on flightinfo.com was brought into this world to set all the rest of us straight on this issue.

 

[HalinTexas]

Can't arrest them? You bet they can.

Press charges? Yep, if they really want to.

Post bail? Probably would be released under his own recognizance.

Actually take it to court? I seriously doubt it. Too politically charged.

Slavery is forcing someone to work without compensation. This is obviously not the case.

Child support is based on what you make, so you better not try and work for less without a good reason. You could call that "indentured servitude," but it wouldn't hold up.

Withou law, unions would never stand a chance, so you better play by the rules that save your a$$ or face a worse fate.

 

[ferlo]

Get back to work or go to jail, sure that's legal. They stole their candy and now their panties are bunched like never before. BTW, who was Taylor, let me guess, a guy/politician who owned a majority stake in a transportation company?

If nobody ever takes a stand, we will have two classes in this country again. The ultra rich, and those that serve.

 

[pilotyip]

You are still missing the point, if somehow all the pilots walked off the job, union, non-union, everyone and forced a 100% increase in wages, more days off and a 1:1 duty rig, those costs would be passed along to the flying public. The flying public would make other choices, a good percentage would not fly they would drive, take a bus, or stay home. There would be a lot less airplanes flying, a lot less jobs, and a few pilots at the top would make out. The airlines are not like NYC, the TWU as no completion, people can not make other choices they are the only way into and out of NYC. The walkout fantasy is like looking at the hottie on the beach, it is fun to imagine

 

[ferlo]

So because people need to take the bus, the driver has no rights? They weild this guilt over his head and expect him to ingest whatever they want to cram down his throat, or pull out of his wallet? Because he drives the bus, he bears the burden. All they did was turn the table and put the burden on managment. Also, remember that a fair/equitable contract in the first place would have avoided all of this.

The bottom line is bloomberg wants to be the unchallenged master, and the thought of the peasants dictating anything to him, is so reprehensible, he would obviously rather cost the citizens 400 million a day, then be reasonable with the TWU. The blame for this rests on the commander. Bloomberg caused this, not a bus driver. As far as "you better obey the law" is concerned, recall that it was the law for a long long time that blacks had to be segregated. Just because it's in writing does not make it right. I guess that's obvious to those of us with a keen sense of justice and common sense.

 

[pipejockey]

Against the law to strike?? WHAT? My question is this; why should any labor group be forced to work without a contract. The MTA had plenty of time to present something acceptable. No contract, no work!! I think the MTA thought they were dealing with airline workers, pilots in particular. But as it turns out they were dealing with the TWU as they quickly learned, a far cry from the likes of airline pilots who don't dare challenge management.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Against the law to strike?? WHAT? My question is this; why should any labor group be forced to work without a contract. The MTA had plenty of time to present something acceptable. No contract, no work!! I think the MTA thought they were dealing with airline workers, pilots in particular. But as it turns out they were dealing with the TWU as they quickly learned, a far cry from the likes of airline pilots who don't dare challenge management.

Remember PATCO? Reagan went after them with a vengeance. He not only fired them but went after their benefits (they became ineligible for welfare.)
Of course, his VP Bush I was in bed with Frank Lorenzo, too, but that's a different can o' worms.

 

[pipejockey]

Yes I do remember, and it was unconscionable! As I believe I said before, peoples wages should be based, in part, on the importance their job has to society. If all the lawyers walked of the job, life would go on and few would feel any inconvienience, it actually might be a breathe of fresh air! Same goes for accountants, their absence for a week would be of no consequence. Also football players and the like. The economy would keep on plugging along without even noticing every athlete just walked of the job. Remember the Hockey strike-lockout last year? All of these million dollar fools are of no conseqence to society. Now take a week long strike by every ailrline pilot in the country, and many things would come to a standstill, the economy would be staggered. It would take people days to go from NYC to LA. All of our time critical freight would take days to get to where it is going. Ahhh, it would be glorious!!!