NWALPA's response to it's members.....

[General Lee]

I didn't say routes, I said assests.

Assets like............Midwest? (Wait, that was already approved by the DOJ with NWA, which I thought was crazy at the time) What else??? Gates? A few at ATL probably. What else?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Ahhh, relief is spelled I-G-N-O-R-E L-I-S-T

Nu

 

[PuffDriver]

48 hours prior to the announcement, our leadership met for 2-hours with those gents.

LOA 19 had already been approved by the DAL MEC (Thursday).

Facts.

Actually the LOA was approved by the MEC saturday:

Atlanta – The governing body of the Delta Air Lines pilots union, represented by the
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), convened April 11 and 12 to consider a
tentative agreement in support of the proposed merger between Delta Air Lines and
Northwest Airlines. On Saturday, April 12, after months of intense analysis and
negotiations, the body unanimously approved the agreement in support of the
merger as proposed and will soon present the agreement to the Delta pilot
membership for ratification. From the inception of merger discussions, the Delta
pilots have fully participated in the process that has culminated in this historic
announcement.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Imagine that....2 different versions of the "facts"....A mainline MEC wouldn't distort the "facts" would they?

 

[Flopgut]

48 hours prior to the announcement, our leadership met for 2-hours with those gents.

LOA 19 had already been approved by the DAL MEC (Thursday).

Facts.

It's amazing you can type and carry that cross at the same time.

 

[PuffDriver]

double post

 

[PuffDriver]

Imagine that....2 different versions of the "facts"....A mainline MEC wouldn't distort the "facts" would they?

The question is did the MEC appropriately send the memo to ASA that we were talking about scope and would let them know what we decided. That's what the 600k was all about after all.

Now you may go. I forgot you were standing there.

 

[IronCityBlue]

The question is did the MEC appropriately send the memo to ASA that we were talking about scope and would let them know what we decided. That's what the 600k was all about after all.

Now you may go. I forgot you were standing there.

Yeah really, and I can't immagine any judge would interpret the "scope" of their settlement as including 100% of anything Delta scope clause related, only RJ's.

 

[PuffDriver]

Yeah really, and I can't immagine any judge would interpret the "scope" of their settlement as including 100% of anything Delta scope clause related, only RJ's.

He didn't. Basically ALPA settled with the fact that have to notify them that we are talking about scope, and what we will be doing, and that we can consult with them if we wish. So pretty much nothing other than a memo. Why do you think they are sill around. The big payday blew away in the wind--like dried dog poo.

 

[IronCityBlue]

He didn't. Basically ALPA settled with the fact that have to notify them that we are talking about scope, and what we will be doing, and that we can consult with them if we wish. So pretty much nothing other than a memo. Why do you think they are sill around. The big payday blew away in the wind--like dried dog poo.

I agree with what you're saying. I just don't think even a memo is required in this case, because no RJ scope (that I'm aware of) is being discussed specifically. Just some other issues within the overall scope section. So if this agreement brought all RJ's immediately onto the mainline, then yes a memo would be required. But it doesn't address RJ's, so nothing is required.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Double post.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Actually the LOA was approved by the MEC saturday:

Atlanta – The governing body of the Delta Air Lines pilots union, represented by the
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), convened April 11 and 12 to consider a
tentative agreement in support of the proposed merger between Delta Air Lines and
Northwest Airlines. On Saturday, April 12, after months of intense analysis and
negotiations, the body unanimously approved the agreement in support of the
merger as proposed and will soon present the agreement to the Delta pilot
membership for ratification. From the inception of merger discussions, the Delta
pilots have fully participated in the process that has culminated in this historic
announcement.

Oops! My bad! Your MEC was approving the deal simultaneously with a brief meeting between the NWA MEC and DAL management.

Back to the point: There were no direct negotiations between NWA ALPA and DAL management at any time. Not legal. (See also: "racketeering")

The context of this issue is simple: The DAL MEC contends that their objective is to welcome the NWA pilots into the fold as "brothers", yet did nothing to facilitate that objective while they were the sole ALPA entity permitted to negotiate directly with DAL management.

If the TRUE goal is parity (or better, Fins!), then there should be no problem with standing together with the NWA pilots when they were permitted to negotiate...and we weren't.

 

[PCL_128]

FWIW, ALPA National did call everyone in to Herndon a couple weeks ago. But ALPA does not have the internal command and control structure needed to fix the problem. There was (and is) no forum for disputes between MECs to be resolved. This illustrates the point I've been making for years.

As you mentioned previously, Prater has the ultimate control to stop this sort of thing: his signature. A simple statement to Moak that he wouldn't be signing any new merger LOA that wasn't jointly approved by both MECs would have stopped this dead in its tracks. Unfortunately, he's instead decided to allow MECs to run amok and do whatever the hell they want. In the process, he may have just created uSAPa 2.0.

 

[PuffDriver]

Oops! My bad! Your MEC was approving the deal simultaneously with a brief meeting between the NWA MEC and DAL management.

Back to the point: There were no direct negotiations between NWA ALPA and DAL management at any time. Not legal. (See also: "racketeering")

The context of this issue is simple: The DAL MEC contends that their objective is to welcome the NWA pilots into the fold as "brothers", yet did nothing to facilitate that objective while they were the sole ALPA entity permitted to negotiate directly with DAL management.

If the TRUE goal is parity (or better, Fins!), then there should be no problem with standing together with the NWA pilots when they were permitted to negotiate...and we weren't.

So what was the meeting with the NWA MEC about? I agree that the timeline is meaningless.

The Delta MEC DID stand shoulder to shoulder with the NWA MEC, hammered out an agreement, and couldn't agree on a list. The Delta MEC DID facilitate agreement when it came to the SLI meetings not from a position of negotiation, but one of compromise. Where was the NWA MEC in that shoulder to shoulder thing when it came to compromise on an SLI? Answer: Trying to climb on top of the head of Delta in rapidly rising water.

 

[Redmeat]

As you mentioned previously, Prater has the ultimate control to stop this sort of thing: his signature. A simple statement to Moak that he wouldn't be signing any new merger LOA that wasn't jointly approved by both MECs would have stopped this dead in its tracks. Unfortunately, he's instead decided to allow MECs to run amok and do whatever the hell they want. In the process, he may have just created uSAPa 2.0.

Yep.

With ham fisted ALPA National fuggin up the works at every turn these days, and (some) MEC's that have no business being in those positions (other than they won the equivalent of a junior-high-school popularity contest) we could very well end up posting about "USAPA National" some day in the future.

Remember that old movie 'All the right moves'?

Unfortunately the sequel 'All the wrong moves' will star the NW negotiating 'team' as the leading cast.

Sad.

 

[N2264J]

Re: NWALPA's response to it's members...

Originally Posted by N2264J
So the NWA MEC who routinely excluded Mesaba, Compass and Pinnacle pilots from negotiations that affected their interests is not being totally upfront when crying foul about the NWA MEC being excluded? Gee, imagine that.

Imagine a flow thru without participation by the MSA or CPZ pilots. Imagine it, because in reality...they were involved.

Oh, that's big of ya. So did the NWA MEC include the Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots in the discussion where the NWA MEC got a $15 million dollar bargaining credit for diverting 40 growth airplanes away from Pinnacle and Mesaba?

Were the Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots brought on board when their alter ego, Compass, was established?

Were the Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots in the room when the NWA MEC bargained scope that restricted the size and number of aircraft they could fly?

There were no direct negotiations between NWA ALPA and DAL management at any time. Not legal. (See also: "racketeering")

Is there something in your eye - a tear or maybe a beam? Here's a tissue.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Oops! My bad! Your MEC was approving the deal simultaneously with a brief meeting between the NWA MEC and DAL management.

Back to the point: There were no direct negotiations between NWA ALPA and DAL management at any time. Not legal. (See also: "racketeering")

The context of this issue is simple: The DAL MEC contends that their objective is to welcome the NWA pilots into the fold as "brothers", yet did nothing to facilitate that objective while they were the sole ALPA entity permitted to negotiate directly with DAL management.

There were no negotiations between DAL management and the ASA/CMR MECs regarding issues that affect the ASA and CMR MECs. How is that any different? I guess according to you that wasn't legal. Interesting that you now see the light...I guess your Ox is getting gored now.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

As you mentioned previously, Prater has the ultimate control to stop this sort of thing: his signature. A simple statement to Moak that he wouldn't be signing any new merger LOA that wasn't jointly approved by both MECs would have stopped this dead in its tracks. Unfortunately, he's instead decided to allow MECs to run amok and do whatever the hell they want. In the process, he may have just created uSAPa 2.0.

I thought your position was that each MEC is free to negotiate how their flying is performed.....That is what DALPA did in this case.....Why the change of heart now.....Is it different when "big airplane" pilots get the short end of the stick?

MEC's have been running amok for a long time...that is the way this association is structured...AND YOU SUPPORT THAT STRUCTURE. You got what you wanted.....now live with it......

 

[~~~^~~~]

Anyway, back to the subject of the thread.

I understand an olive branch was extended to the NWA pilots from the D_MEC, do not have any details. But IMHO LOA19 is not turning out to be very popular. More than a few Delta pilots would prefer a joint contract.

 

[PCL_128]

Oh, that's big of ya. So did the NWA MEC include the Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots in the discussion where the NWA MEC got a $15 million dollar bargaining credit for diverting 40 growth airplanes away from Pinnacle and Mesaba?

Were the Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots brought on board when their alter ego, Compass, was established?

Were the Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots in the room when the NWA MEC bargained scope that restricted the size and number of aircraft they could fly?

The relationship between the NWA, PCL, and MSA MECs is not the dysfunctional mess that you're used to between CMR and DALPA. In fact, Captain Wychor has always been very close with the NWA MEC. The MECs share an office in MSP. The lines of communication are always open. You RJDC wankers need to stop trying to speak for the Airlink pilots. Your union terrorism does not appeal to them.