"NWA will be the purchaser" IMHO

[catIIIc]

I am glad that is your opinion, but that is not the opinion of Richard Anderson here at Delta, and he probably knows more than you do about what is going on. But, you did use TPG to get rid of the Air Tran threat, which is good for you. If mergers do occur in the future, it may just include "pieces" of airlines, to get rid of the "political" and governmental roadblocks. Do you need GOV'T approval to buy some planes or routes from another airline? Maybe, but not as much oversight as a full merger. Tilton has hinted that he may be willing to sell parts of United (like the Asian routes), and maybe that is what is in our future. If Northwest is there instead of the UAL Pacific routes, I would think NWA employees would rather have DL management since no one anywhere likes the NWA management. It just makes sense.

Bye Bye--General Lee

No where has Tilton said the Pacific Routes are for sale, only the FF and MX programs were mentioned and other "non core assets". I believe the Pacific would be a core asset.
Selling the Pacific Routes would be the start of UAL liquidation, and if you read the latest blast from UAL's MEC(in another thread) you will also see it is against their loan covenants. You will not be getting UAL's routes without all of UAL.

 

[General Lee]

No where has Tilton said the Pacific Routes are for sale, only the FF and MX programs were mentioned and other "non core assets". I believe the Pacific would be a core asset.
Selling the Pacific Routes would be the start of UAL liquidation, and if you read the latest blast from UAL's MEC(in another thread) you will also see it is against their loan covenants. You will not be getting UAL's routes without all of UAL.

Maybe you need to read Michael Boyd's article "United is Perfuming itself."


United's Perfuming Itself
Now, We Can Talk Mergers

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm


I know Boyd can be outrageous at times, but he also makes a point. The pieces of United may be worth more than the whole, and Tilton may know that. He also yelled at an employee stating they would have to do something or go back into BK. Tilton obviously doesn't want to run an airline anymore, and that is troublesome for many. Tilton has thrown out fish hooks to see interest, I bet we have expressed interest in those routes I have mentioned. We'll see.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Says you. Dont think Richard is going to be this great savior at DL. He was more popular among the ranks at NWA, but not really that much more trusted.

Says ME? Huh? A lot more people in the know think DL would be the acquirer. I haven't seen any articles or anything in the press saying Northwest is looking to be "the aquirer" of anything. Our DL CFO just stated at a conference that we have "acquistions on our front burner", and Richard Anderson stated "we will be the aqurier." If you want to GUESS otherwise, go ahead, but show me some written proof to back up your statements. Not everything in writing means it will be true, but you have to have more to back up your statements than blind faith. Give me something, come on. And, I never said Anderson will be our "savior", but he so far is certainly better and more of an airline guy than Leo Mullin. And, he has guys working for him now that are very good at what they do. We'll see, and hopefully you will back up your statements.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[catIIIc]

[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Lucida]From the Boyd Article[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Lucida]"Buy United? Encourage a competitor to do so? Make a play for key parts? Plan a regulatory attack, with the intent of stripping key parts (like the Tokyo fifth-freedom rights) from a potential merger? Might the PBGC try to grab some of the spin-off cash? Might the Star Alliance be interested in doing something? Go after ORD slots? Lots of competitive options out there. One thing, at least at this point, seems to be certain. United's management really wants to sell."[/FONT]​

You mean this part? Yeah pure speculation from Boyd with no facts other then Tilton wants to merge. I think the quote was,"Would you rather merge or end up in Bankruptcy again?" I don't think it means sell our most profitable route authorities to our competitors so we can better compete in the lucrative US domestic market.​

I do believe Tilton is setting up UAL for a merger, but all of UAL, not just parts.

And if this merger mania does pan out I think DAL/NW would merge if only because of the close ties with AF/KLM.​

 

[General Lee]

[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Lucida]From the Boyd Article[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Lucida]"Buy United? Encourage a competitor to do so? Make a play for key parts? Plan a regulatory attack, with the intent of stripping key parts (like the Tokyo fifth-freedom rights) from a potential merger? Might the PBGC try to grab some of the spin-off cash? Might the Star Alliance be interested in doing something? Go after ORD slots? Lots of competitive options out there. One thing, at least at this point, seems to be certain. United's management really wants to sell."[/FONT]​

You mean this part? Yeah pure speculation from Boyd with no facts other then Tilton wants to merge. I think the quote was,"Would you rather merge or end up in Bankruptcy again?" I don't think it means sell our most profitable route authorities to our competitors so we can better compete in the lucrative US domestic market.​

Tilton wants out, and along with Parker is the first to always state that they NEED consolidation NOW. If the Government continually thwarts mergers, then the only way to essentially do the same thing is to sell parts to competitors. Tilton knows this, and so does Boyd. We'll see, parts is parts.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Schwanker]

Says ME? Huh? A lot more people in the know think DL would be the acquirer. I haven't seen any articles or anything in the press saying Northwest is looking to be "the aquirer" of anything. Our DL CFO just stated at a conference that we have "acquistions on our front burner", and Richard Anderson stated "we will be the aqurier." If you want to GUESS otherwise, go ahead, but show me some written proof to back up your statements. Not everything in writing means it will be true, but you have to have more to back up your statements than blind faith. Give me something, come on. And, I never said Anderson will be our "savior", but he so far is certainly better and more of an airline guy than Leo Mullin. And, he has guys working for him now that are very good at what they do. We'll see, and hopefully you will back up your statements.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey GL,
I'm glad you have so much faith in management and what they say. I don't trust a thing they say--ever. The press seems to struggle with reality more often than not. Take a look at the reorganization structure of Delta and NWA. One company has a costly poison pill in its plan, the other was strictly forbidden by their creditors because those creditors wanted the ability to sell the franchise. I think the acquirer will depend on what makes the most financial sense. Some people believe in Cinderella, fairy tales, and Airline Executive lies. I'd prefer to make predictions off of cold hard facts. Just a thought.
Schwanker

 

[FDJ2]

Hey GL,
One company has a costly poison pill in its plan, the other was strictly forbidden by their creditors because those creditors wanted the ability to sell the franchise.

FYI, the DAL contract specifies that, in the event of a merger, the DAL PWA is the controlling document and all provisions remain in force. It also provides that the amount of Delta flying cannot decrease during a merger transition period until full operational integration, a period that would take years. Additionally it states that Delta pilots must fly any aircraft configured for over 76 seats. I'm not sure if that would be an issue with Compass.[FONT=Courier New,Courier New] [/FONT]Most importantly, the Delta pilot contract is binding on any successor or affiliate, including a transaction where Delta is bought by another carrier or holding company.

I'm not sure if that makes an acquisition more difficult or not, but it's good to see that in any transaction the DAL PWA would be controlling, there could be no reduction in DAL flying during the transition and that the DAL PWA would be binding on any successor.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

ALL of NWA Airlink aircraft are 74 seats or less.

cliff
YIP

 

[Flyingcat]

Let us not forget that no contract is truly binding in the eyes of management. Wording left to interpretation, side letter of agreements, running back into bankruptcy. Although looks good on paper it is usually discovered to be as worthless as airline stock this weekend. I think the point was made earlier that a lot of what is being said in public is nothing more than things to take you away from the real plans. Remember LCC's miserable attempt to take over Delta. Though I am sure they went through the motions, I am not so sure that is was not an attempt to distract his employees and the public as to the disaster of an airline that he turned LCC into.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Says ME? Huh? A lot more people in the know think DL would be the acquirer. I haven't seen any articles or anything in the press saying Northwest is looking to be "the aquirer" of anything. Our DL CFO just stated at a conference that we have "acquistions on our front burner", and Richard Anderson stated "we will be the aqurier." If you want to GUESS otherwise, go ahead, but show me some written proof to back up your statements. Not everything in writing means it will be true, but you have to have more to back up your statements than blind faith. Give me something, come on. And, I never said Anderson will be our "savior", but he so far is certainly better and more of an airline guy than Leo Mullin. And, he has guys working for him now that are very good at what they do. We'll see, and hopefully you will back up your statements.


Bye Bye--General Lee

How you been General? Give us all something yourself. Where is Delta going to get the money for buying anyone? You often boast of the pretty good latest operating stats , but gloss over balance sheet items like $8.6B debt outstanding. I'm sure there is another group out there like Parker got together to make a run at Delta but what would that mean?.... More debt.

The only reason Delta is rattling sabres about "acquiring" anyone is because that is the marching orders of the creditor controlled BOD.

Standing by for you to back up your statements with something besides your typical yawners of "idiot" and "dork".

 

[Quack]

Hi!

ALL of NWA Airlink aircraft are 74 seats or less.

cliff
YIP

The 175 and the 900 both seat 76. not splitting hairs, but...

 

[Fly4hire]

Says ME? Huh? A lot more people in the know think DL would be the acquirer. I haven't seen any articles or anything in the press saying Northwest is looking to be "the aquirer" of anything. Our DL CFO just stated at a conference that we have "acquistions on our front burner", and Richard Anderson stated "we will be the aqurier."

You are giving yourself way too much credit if you think those in the "know" are telling you the truth, let alone Anderson. Those in the "know" are BMOC's - the real deal will probably blind side everyone when it happens.

FWIW, those who have dealt with Anderson before prefer Steenland - they are the same animal. Steenland has the same MO less the Anderson "Aw-shcucks" and remembering your wife's b'day.

 

[IXLR8]

Says ME? Huh? A lot more people in the know think DL would be the acquirer. I haven't seen any articles or anything in the press saying Northwest is looking to be "the aquirer" of anything. Our DL CFO just stated at a conference that we have "acquistions on our front burner", and Richard Anderson stated "we will be the aqurier." If you want to GUESS otherwise, go ahead, but show me some written proof to back up your statements. Not everything in writing means it will be true, but you have to have more to back up your statements than blind faith. Give me something, come on. And, I never said Anderson will be our "savior", but he so far is certainly better and more of an airline guy than Leo Mullin. And, he has guys working for him now that are very good at what they do. We'll see, and hopefully you will back up your statements.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow, an airline employee who believes what his CEO says. You are truly one of a kind. Where did I say NWA was buying anyone??? Proof?...From what any CEO says?...Or rumor?...OK....ummm...Doug Steanland says NWA ins't going to buy anyone, or merge. There, how's that?...:nuts:

 

[Herman]

So…this is to the people that know who is going to buy who, and who will merge with whom.
Why don’t you put your money where your mouth is? Buy stock in the airline that you are so confident is buying another airline, wait a couple of years, become rich and retire. You have the inside track and seem to know the industry.
All I know is that a blue color worker disguised in a white shirt with some stripes on the shoulder will never gain or loose much in any merger, so unless you are willing to bet your retirement savings, nothing will change for you.

 

[FDJ2]

but gloss over balance sheet items like $8.6B debt outstanding.

Are you sure about that figure? I thought the last SEC filing had DAL current liabilities at $6.7B, with a 3Q operating revenue of $5.2B and operating income for the year of $1.7B. How does DAL's current liabilities compare to airlines of similar size?

The only reason Delta is rattling sabres about "acquiring" anyone is because that is the marching orders of the creditor controlled BOD.

On this I agree. Although I would add that DAL management is not under marching orders to consolidate, but they do have to be open to the idea, as any management team must. DAL management never said they were interested in acquiring anyone, they simply stated that if it made sense they'd look into it. JMHO, but I don't see a merger between two large network carriers any time soon, although anything is possible.