NWA very upset with Pinnacle

[mesaba2425]

Who the hell would want to work when it's -2* F as the high temp and -20* wind chill all week long?? I do not blame the rampers one bit for calling in sick or giving a sh!t if one flight went out on time.

That's no excuse. They knew what kind of weather conditions they were going to have to work in when they took the job. Calling in "sick" because it's cold outside is not an acceptable reason.

 

[T-handle]

That's no excuse. They knew what kind of weather conditions they were going to have to work in when they took the job. Calling in "sick" because it's cold outside is not an acceptable reason.

Tell that to the rampers, not me.

 

[cathal]

Heck, I'm surprised we had any rampers at all. Can you imagine doing that job in this weather while understaffed and handling 3 time the bags you usually do? Not only do I think it was acceptable, I think a sick call would have been the only way to prove my worth to this company if I worked our ramp. Low pay, awful conditions and what do they have to show for it? X-mas on the ramp? PUH-lease- I would have tried to convince every one of my co-workers to stay home.

Now, while we're to blame for Pinnacle's very recent poor performance, let's review some of the other facts associated with 9E. 1 hull loss and the very sad loss of 2 pilots, 1 crew sleeping over Spica, 1 pilot murder/suicide, 1 FA in the slammer for sabotage, rampant abuse of crews reulting in low morale, and we've seen your antics on the ground and in the air @ our hubs. I ain't setting foot on one of your A/C.

 

[T-handle]

Management knows every winter they are going to have a staffing problem, especially when temps dip below 0. (Rampers watch the weather channel like us.) What does mgt honestly expect??? People calling in "Hey Boss I hear you need a hand on the ramp, I can't wait to get my hands on some bags and tug some airplanes around!!!" ?????

When they hire these rampers, the last thing they talk to them about is the actual job- they sell the job to the recruits based on "Travel and health benefits". Same thing goes for our FAs. They lure em in, and 1-2 weeks on the job, they realize wtf they just got themselves into.

 

[Dodge]

We share the blame

Mesaba has never adequately staffed the ramp since I was hired 99. Management here has always had the mind set of never having one person extra anywhere at anytime, unless it is in the Senior Leadership Team. There you can never have too many.

I would like to see our ramp agents work our flights instead of 9E flights in the hubs and I know that the Saab drivers desperately NEED our agents in MEM. That is more for safety than anything there. I am also sure the 9E folks would like to not have their competitors handle their flights in MSP and DTW.

But alas, the current operation is the cheapest, whether its for the best or not.

An example:
DTW, 20 minutes past departure. All 69 PHL pax are waiting at the gate with no gate agent. Captain goes to ops and finds the SOC manager. SOC sweater guy has no idea of anything that is going on. We find two gate agents per gate working the CRJ flights and no agent assigned to our gate. Then we wait another hour after the paxare boarded for bags to be loaded and another 20 minutes for a pushback crew. The next day DTW SOC sweaters report to MSP that DTW is operating at 100%.

Mesaba ground ops is in dire need of an overhaul and should start with the sweater guys.

 

[Rook]

Hey Cathal what kind of antics are you referring to?

I have a lot of friends over at XJ and 'walked' the line with you when you guys got sold out for your contract by T.W. Not setting foot on our a/c? Should I change my attitude when your XJ co-workers need a ride? Yeah I probably should seeing how right after contacting departure I need a nap. Using 3701 as an example is hitting below the belt playa. Lighten up Francis as long as my I.D. says 9E I figure we're all in the same S**thole together.

Rook

 

[AirBill]

IMHO this industry, more specifically the "regional airlines", will NEVER achieve anything close to resembling a professional run airline because they cannot/will not pay for the caliber of personnel that is required. You say heads will roll... I will patiently wait for the press release knowing full well that it will not happen simply because the company will not be able to find a suitable replacement for the wage that is advertised.

Tailwinds,

I understand your point about getting what you pay for. Low rates does make retention hard, but only if others are hiring, and right now the regionals are the only places hiring in this business. That being said, higher pay should never be associated with a better product. I've dealt with both regional and mainline personnel, and I can tell you from experience that mainline is infested with many people who draw a fat paycheck and nothing else. It's a big part of the overall problem.

 

[405]

My prediction

When everything calms down and everything starts running close to on-time about a week from now, management will not remember "those few days" that happened before Christmas.

No one will do anything to improve a d*mn thing. We'll all just hang out and wait for the next "event" to happen. Then they'll all be wandering around lost wondering what's going on. They'll have conference calls, act important, thank us for "being here" and eventually put the little band-aid on the shotgun blast to the head just like they always do. They'll cancel a few flights thinking everything will be okay in a few hours. You can't run flights 3+ hours late and expect the system to recover on it's own. The SOC was chaotic when this started and I'm sure it still is.

No one higher than my job will learn anything from this and nothing will change. We'll still have the same crappy computers, unreliable software, low morale and, as usual, not enough people the next time this happens.

 

[cathal]

Rook, I merely pointed out examples of why Pinnacle might not be in NWA's good graces. Sorry if you took offense at that. I believe that the people you're being given the opportunity to hire are often not of the highest caliber, and the antics I refer to are some of the lack of awareness and unprofessional conduct I witness. Some of you are very professional. My goal was not to offend, although I knew offense might be taken.

I am not without my faults, nor is Mesaba. Please don't take what I've written to mean that we are faultless. Again, accept my apologizes for the stating facts. I do want us to be in this all together. At the risk of creeping the thread away from it's original point, I do want us all on one NWA list at some point and will stand with anyone who desires the same. The best of luck to you and all my brothers and sisters at 9E. We're all being hurt by the same people who refuse to give us the tools to do our jobs well. Those tools include adequate staffing and training, and both our companies suffer from that.

 

[405]

We're all being hurt by the same people who refuse to give us the tools to do our jobs well. Those tools include adequate staffing and training, and both our companies suffer from that.

Well said.

 

[Rook]

Hey cathal

No sweat dude. I've seen the lack of professionalism on some ends. As far as who we hire...well H.R. has the magic Ouija board and no one knows the rhyme or reason. Stating that you wont set foot on our a/c is basically saying that all of us at 9E are clueless. (that's only partially true) some of us do know our heads from our arses.

I've always supported the XJ guys and they helped me out of a jam when I had some family problems(critically ill parent)and got first class both ways from MEM-EWR with the same crew. Didn't want to turn this into a 9Evs.XJ thread, but I appreciated your response. We're all understaffed in some aspect. My attitude is when we're delayed I look over at the F/O while waiting for the rampers, point to the cockpit door and say "Sucks for them huh?" Usually elicits a laugh.

You guys and gals fly safe
Rook

 

[blade230]

"I believe that the people you're being given the opportunity to hire are often not of the highest caliber, and the antics I refer to are some of the lack of awareness and unprofessional conduct I witness."

I guess Mesaba has only the finest pilots in the sky. Please......

 

[another747]

Wow, spoken like true pilots. We at abc airline have the best airline pilots in the world. You guys have hired lower time people, therefore, by deductive logic, we are better. What a joke.

A pilots initial training overall inclusive of primary, as well as natural "God" given ability is what makes him/her a good "pilot". Not flight hours. Experience is what GIVES a good pilot increased "sound" judgement in certain scenarios. (in most circumstances at leat)

Most experienced pilots know this.

Though I will admit, having heard about the NWA mess this past few days, I can see where this thread came from.

 

[Rook]

all those ratings and no spellcheck???

But the guy is experienced to say the leat...
sorry 747 If I didnt do it someone else would.

Fly safe

Rook

 

[cathal]

I didn't say that XJ has the finest pilots in the world. I have stated only verifiable facts. Nor did I mention the experience level of any pilots. In fact, I specifically blamed a completely different cause (9E, NWA and XJ management) for 9E's woes.
Nice reading skills. Funny how the person who originally had a beef with my statements can understand what I meant and agree, at least in part, with my position.
747- did you read blade's post and let him tell you what was said? The second statement you made is dead on and inarguable. The problems I mentioned with SOME of the Pinnacle pilots are, unfortunately, facts. Let us not forget that they also had a captain show up drunk in MSP this past year.
How's this for summing up my position: 9E's, NWA's and XJ policies are making it impossible for some excellent people, including pilots at all 3 airlines, to offer the best possible product due to their hiring policies.
Does that work? Or is it impossible to state facts without drawing criticism and causing offense to be taken?
Rook- nice chatting with you. I'm glad we can understand each other. I wish you all the best.