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Nwa Ta Appears To Be Online

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This is not our business, only those wearing NWA suits.

But if I was in your shoes, I would want to see a vidio conference of my negotiating committee, and the company committee explaining what this Sjet section means (face it guys we may be smart people, but we are not lawyers). If not I would be waiting for some crazy thing to happin one day in DTW. (Like all domestic flying to someone else, A330 flying to Mesa) And then the companys claim that,

"Oh yeah guys that was right there in the fine print, we're sure we told you about that. Anyway, you voted it in, to late now."
 
COpilot said:
This is not our business, only those wearing NWA suits.

But if I was in your shoes, I would want to see a vidio conference of my negotiating committee, and the company committee explaining what this Sjet section means (face it guys we may be smart people, but we are not lawyers). If not I would be waiting for some crazy thing to happin one day in DTW. (Like all domestic flying to someone else, A330 flying to Mesa) And then the companys claim that,

"Oh yeah guys that was right there in the fine print, we're sure we told you about that. Anyway, you voted it in, to late now."

COpilot,

Agree 100%. If there is a loophole this scumbag EMT will drive a 747400 through it. Question for ya: Do you CO folks have 100% pay/credit for deadhead? Some folks over here claiming that we will be the only carrier with 50% pay for DH if this passes. I was thinking DL had that too....
 
At present we are 50% pay for deadhead, July 2006 75%, July 2007 100%.

I probably don't have to tell you, but as much as a payrate cut sucks, it is all of the little BS items that come up over the coming year that drives you crazy. All of the things that made this a career rather than a job have all gone out the window now. The deadhead pay (your working for the company but no pay) the sitting in coach seats for crew rest "yeah right rest", etc,etc. These are things that are fair forms of compensation.

Heck, did I see you all are going to have only First Offices as instructors, whats up with that?
 
COpilot said:
At present we are 50% pay for deadhead, July 2006 75%, July 2007 100%.

I probably don't have to tell you, but as much as a payrate cut sucks, it is all of the little BS items that come up over the coming year that drives you crazy. All of the things that made this a career rather than a job have all gone out the window now. The deadhead pay (your working for the company but no pay) the sitting in coach seats for crew rest "yeah right rest", etc,etc. These are things that are fair forms of compensation.

Heck, did I see you all are going to have only First Offices as instructors, whats up with that?

Thanks for the info. Yeah, not sure the details on the IP thing. The summary we got says: "Replace most Captain Instructors with First Officer Instructors" NWA's original proposal was for non-seniority list IPs except for checking events. The TA allows for non-seniority list pilots for "most" seat support in the sim. Will have to see the details on the FO IP thing. More CA positions eliminated, even more with FO augment etc.
 
DTW320 said:
Thanks for the info. Yeah, not sure the details on the IP thing. The summary we got says: "Replace most Captain Instructors with First Officer Instructors" NWA's original proposal was for non-seniority list IPs except for checking events. The TA allows for non-seniority list pilots for "most" seat support in the sim. Will have to see the details on the FO IP thing. More CA positions eliminated, even more with FO augment etc.

Of course, they also took away the instructor incentive pay and upped the number of events.

A little taste of extra cash was nice when you spent at least 16 days a month in a hotel in MSP plus some OT if you went over 16.

The IP gig at NWA was the last OK deal going, and now they killed that, too. It's pretty much going to be for the townies now.

Nu
 
Anyone have a bullet-point synopsis out there for the rest of us? I know things are still hazy, but I'd love to see the "bigger picture" points with the implications for the pilot group if anyone has the time and the understanding.

This result (if it passes) will likely impact all other legacy negotiations in the industry and I am sure many people would appreciate a little review.

Thanks
 
Occam's Razor said:
The current pay rates continue. No further cuts.
RJ's unlimited below 76 seats.
DH now 50% pay...100% credit.
Caps up to 88 hours (with 4 months of 2-hours flex allowed)
Vacation accruals reduced; Value set at 2:48/day.
4-year duration
A series of 1.5% and 2.0% raises built in.
Air Force pilots required to wax DC-9 fleet on days off.
DC Plan set at 5% thru next year, then ratchets-up over time to 8%.
100% pay for 1st and 2nd sick call (with note); 75% after that.
Some non-captain instructors allowed; non-seniority seat-support allowed.
Captain augmentation gone...but phased-in to avoid displacements.
5-hour average day.
Blockholder gurantee 68-hours.
14-year recall rights.
Successor/Fragmentation follows ALPA model.
Instructor and International overrides are gone.
Reserve days off reduced by 1 day (11/12 vice 12/13).

Razor's synopsis was good. There's a lot of stuff about performance incentives, "equity" distribution, small jets, etc., that's kind of ... inscrutable, as published so far. It all awaits clarification.
 
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COpilot said:
This is not our business, only those wearing NWA suits.

But if I was in your shoes, I would want to see a vidio conference of my negotiating committee, and the company committee explaining what this Sjet section means (face it guys we may be smart people, but we are not lawyers). If not I would be waiting for some crazy thing to happin one day in DTW. (Like all domestic flying to someone else, A330 flying to Mesa) And then the companys claim that,

"Oh yeah guys that was right there in the fine print, we're sure we told you about that. Anyway, you voted it in, to late now."

I think what the company is saying is...IF NWA owns the company that owns the outsourced flying, NWA pilots MAY have a chance to fly them. I don't see any provisions that help us if the company doesn't own Sjet.
 
320AV8R said:
So eastbound 330 trips will have 1 CA & 1 F/O flying, with 1 F/O DHing in the back for ½ pay.320AV8R


Icahn did that at TWA after one of the concessionary contracts. The Captains just declared fatigue half way across and activated the relief pilot. The company then had to pay him for both legs.

Management tried to bully the pilots into not doing that but the FAA had to back the pilot's right to activate the relief pilot.TC
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Is there J4J in the agreement?

The TA summary doesn't delve into the SJet portion of the agreement. The next issue of "Across the Table" is supposed to have a detailed explanation of the SJet language, as it is apparently pretty complicated. That should be out in a few days I believe. I would be surprised if they did not include some sort of J4J provisions though.
 
FROM NWA MEC:

COMMUNICATIONS REGARDING TA (3/06/06)
The MEC is aware that pilots are extremely anxious to obtain as
much information about the TA as soon as possible. Please
understand the Negotiating and Communications Committees will
assemble and disseminate the information as soon as possible.

A Ziplines is currently scheduled to be sent out tomorrow while an
Across The Table providing details about the TA is scheduled to be
sent out by Friday. In an attempt to provide some information as
soon as possible, a brief "bullet point" communications was posted
on the NWA MEC Pilots website (www.nwaalpa.org/pilots) Saturday
night. Unfortunately, this "brief" communications caused some
confusion. That is why waiting a few days to provide a thorough
summary is usually the best communications practice.

Rest assured, all of the TA information will be forthcoming soon.
The Negotiating Committee has now changed its focus from
negotiations to communications. Also, roadshow schedules and
balloting dates are currently being researched. We will provide
more information about upcoming roadshows and balloting dates once
those issues have been decided. Thank you for your patience.
 
COpilot said:
This is not our business, only those wearing NWA suits.

But if I was in your shoes, I would want to see a vidio conference of my negotiating committee, and the company committee explaining what this Sjet section means (face it guys we may be smart people, but we are not lawyers). If not I would be waiting for some crazy thing to happin one day in DTW. (Like all domestic flying to someone else, A330 flying to Mesa) And then the companys claim that,

"Oh yeah guys that was right there in the fine print, we're sure we told you about that. Anyway, you voted it in, to late now."

Amen Brother! Testify!!
 

NEWCO has not gone away...... it transformed into SJet.

SJET gets 90 seventy-six seat aircraft.... to start. Yea, yea, here we go again. There's a legal loophole that an A-380 will fit through.

These a-holes took us to court over a 3% raise a few years ago. Now they have their "foot in the scope door". Face it- these snakes are smarter than any ALPA attorney.

I feel a growing sucking sound...........................

320AV8R
 
320AV8R said:
NEWCO has not gone away...... it transformed into SJet.

SJET gets 90 seventy-six seat aircraft.... to start. Yea, yea, here we go again. There's a legal loophole that an A-380 will fit through.

These a-holes took us to court over a 3% raise a few years ago. Now they have their "foot in the scope door". Face it- these snakes are smarter than any ALPA attorney.

I feel a growing sucking sound...........................

320AV8R
And if you follow the history of the Avro and the 44seat crj you will no doubt be expecting the 76 seaters to be E190's rigged to 76 seats..................
 
What about 50- 75 seats?
 
Yudso said:
What about 50- 75 seats?
SMALL JET (SJ) PARAMETERS OF THE NWA / ALPA RESTRUCTURING TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
Highlights of the SJ flying parameters.
1. SJ’s with a certificated seating capacity of 50 seats or less.
• Flown at feeder carriers.
• Unlimited number allowed.
• No limitations on use.
• No limitations on ownership, financing, control, etc.
• No special employment opportunities for furloughed NWA pilots except as provided for the Pinnacle Hiring LOA signed in 2002.
2. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats not owned, leased, financed, or controlled by NWA and operated at Feeder Carriers flying their own aircraft.
• No limitations on use.
• Must have a certificated seating capacity of 86 seats or less, with the exception that if the CRJ-900LR is operated the maximum seating certification level is 90 seats.
• Limited to 55 aircraft. This total includes the existing 35 Mesaba Avros, which these aircraft are intended to replace.
• The 55 limit may be exceeded on a 1:1 basis with the “entering into service” of a 77-110 seat configured SJ to be flown at NWA mainline. The pay rates and work rules for the 77-110 seat mainline SJ are covered later.
• Furloughed NWA pilots are entitled to 5 new hire jobs at the Feeder Carrier operating the aircraft.
• The Feeder Carrier’s furloughed pilots have first right to any jobs at their airline.
• The furloughed NWA pilots employed at the Feeder Carrier would work under the terms of that carrier’s pilot contract.
3. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats which are owned, leased, or financed by NWA and operated at Feeder Carriers.
• All parameters are the same as the previous section, and are included in the 55 aircraft limit, except the employment opportunities for furloughed NWA pilots.
• Furloughed NWA pilots would then be entitled to ½ of the Captain and ½ of the First Officer positions created to operate the aircraft provided by NWA. (Except at Mesaba, where there are already pilots operating 35 Avros, which will be replaced.)
• The furloughed NWA pilots employed at the Feeder Carrier would work under the terms of that carrier’s pilot contract.
4. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats which are flown at a separate wholly owned subsidiary/affiliate of NWA (called “SJet” for now”).
• No limitations on use.
• Must have a certificated seating capacity of 86 seats or less, with the exception that if the CRJ-900LR is operated the maximum seating certification level is 90 seats.
• Limited to 90 total aircraft, which is inclusive of the 55 aircraft limit for the Feeder Carrier flying.
• The 90 aircraft limit may be exceeded on a 1:1 basis with the “entering into service” of a 77-110 seat configured SJ to be flown at NWA mainline.
• Furloughed NWA pilots have the first right to the jobs at “SJet”, but will be on a separate seniority list.
• There would be a “flow up / flow down” between pilots at “SJet” and NWA, including new hire pilots at SJet and NWA. The flow up / down would be subject to metering limitations.
• NWA would be allowed to sell “SJet” after 10 77-110 seat configured Small Jets “are in active service” at NWA mainline.
• If the successor owner of “SJet” does not comply with the Flow Up / Down provisions, the number of 51-76 seat SJs being flown by Feeder Carriers would be required to be reduced to a baseline of 55 aircraft.
• The pay rates and work rules for the “SJet” flying are covered later.
• Note: the trigger for NWA to outsource up to 90 76 seat configured aircraft is dependent upon maintaining the flow up/down process.
5. SJ’s configured with 77-110 seats (118 certificated) would be flown at NWA Mainline at the previously mentioned ratios.
• 1:1 ratio above 55 76 seat SJs operated by Feeder Carriers which are not subsidiaries of NWA.
• 1:1 ratio above 90 76 seat SJs operated by NWA subsidiary “SJet” and other Feeder Carriers.
• Pay rates and work rules for this group are included later and would not include any aircraft with a certified seating capacity greater than 118, or any series of an aircraft type already operated by NWA, such as the 318, B717, etc.
6. A mainline narrowbody fleet threshold (floor) would be established one year after emergence from bankruptcy.
 
What's the source of that info? Is that the official summary from the MEC, or just what is rumored?
 
PCL_128 said:
What's the source of that info? Is that the official summary from the MEC, or just what is rumored?

PCL,

That looks pretty legalize....


AA
 
AAflyer said:
PCL,

That looks pretty legalize....


AA

That's what I thought, but I want to make sure since I'm probably going to start getting calls from our pilots asking about it. I understand that the Ziplines and Across the Table newsletters were supposed to be out soon, so is this coming from that?
 
PCL_128 said:
What's the source of that info? Is that the official summary from the MEC, or just what is rumored?

It's a preliminary document from one of the LEC's - not the offcial MEC communiaction, but it is accurate from my understanding. The only thing missing is the MEC spin on how this is really a good deal for all concerned.........
 
Fly4hire said:
It's a preliminary document from one of the LEC's - not the offcial MEC communiaction, but it is accurate from my understanding. The only thing missing is the MEC spin on how this is really a good deal for all concerned.........

Gotcha. Thanks.
 
Hunh. That looks like something written by Tom Roberts, i.e., ugly, and impossible to monitor.

And it never really goes away.
 
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It's still NEWCO, isn't it?

The bottom line is, someone flying a DC-9 now is going to end up at some other place flying another jet in NW colors at lower pay, without the benifits they had before.

I like the part about payrates, and workrules to come later. LOL!!!

Or, how about the Mainline narrowbody fleet number to be established later? I've got your number, 0
 
COpilot said:
It's still NEWCO, isn't it?

The bottom line is, someone flying a DC-9 now is going to end up at some other place flying another jet in NW colors at lower pay, without the benifits they had before.

I like the part about payrates, and workrules to come later. LOL!!!

Or, how about the Mainline narrowbody fleet number to be established later? I've got your number, 0

Cutting the narrowbody fleet by 50% maximizes outsourcing. But as far as the market goes, you will see probably 30-40 Dc-9's to be replaced by SJets and the other DC-9's replaced by mainline jets.
 

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