Nwa Pilots No Support Amfa?

[dbrownie]

As a pilot I would hope you guys refuse to fly anything you feel is unsafe or shady and don't refrain from writing something up if its bad.

IndyGTP;

We do that now and will keep doing it.

The jets now are LOADED with multiple MELs.

Most every flight is a major pain looking up what has to be done.

Sadly it won't get better any time soon.

Dave B

 

[~~~^~~~]

I see DHC8 in your profile. You wouldnt happen to have been one of those awful Mesaba guys stealing main -line flying would you?

Hey did the Mesaba guys write the scope that gave them your flying, or did your MEC? Did the Duane Woerth sign the contract with the NWA MEC Chair? Did your fellow NWA pilots ratify the contract, with its scope provisions?

I'm not sure why you are complaining to a guy who flew Dash 8's. It is not like any of his fellow regional pilots had anything to do with the scope the NWA Pilot Reps and ALPA National negotiated. It appears your own MEC is who you should be angry with.

I fully expect ALPA to fly through a strike when Duane Woerth gets his picture taken eating cake and ice cream with Continental scabs. ALPA has lost any sense of what a union should be.

"Willow Run Vortex" that is not a reference to some General Motors engine is it? If so, I'm going to change my screen name to SVT4ME.

~~~^~~~

 

[320AV8R]

IndyGTP said:

Do you believe Steenland when he said the replacement workforce will have an average of 6 years experience on commercial aircraft?

I don't believe anything Steenland says. But I do believe the other sources, including the Director of Flight Ops, along with the FAA. The FAA has been closely involved with the recruitment and certification process of the replacement mechanics.

These scab companies have been recruiting new A&P's from school!! The kids right out of school are jumping on the opportunity to make $32/hr.

What "school" are you refering to ?

What is your source for the new mechanics' background ?

The fact is, most of them ARE furloughed Part 121 A&Ps, mostly NWA, UAL, etc.... My friend lives next to one of them, who's got years of experience, and is furloughed from NWA. The active line mechanics admit that most of them are experienced as well.

320AV8R

 

[scabseeker]

That has already started at the pilot group. We have lost tons of flying to contract companies, (Mesaba and Pinnacle). No other group has stepped up to stop it. I don't expect anyone to.

Fliarous! How is any other group supposed to step up to stop it when the pilots themselves didn't in the last "bridge" agreement. No wonder you don't expect anyone to.

I can't believe I am agreeing with fins but on this one he is 100% correct.

 

[Clyde]

You forgot C) Wait until NWA decides to strong arm you guys by hiring/training replacement pilots.

They can threaten to do that, but it wouldn't work. Northwest has about what, 5400 pilots? What do they fly? B-747's (200's and 400's), B-757's DC-9's, A319/320's, A330's, and DC-10's? A lot of training on a lot of different airframes, including three positions on two different fleets.

Assuming the pilots walk, Northwest (or any airline) for that matter cannot possibly hire and train that many pilots fast enough to survive.

First, the airplanes do not fly, the revenue does not accumulate. If they were to hire scabs off the street, it would take them 3-5 days just to go through indoc. 3-5 days of airplanes just sitting around would sink them, especially given their currrent financial situation. You can hire current/qualified people, but they can't be put into the cockpit overnight. By the time the scabs are trained and ready, there wouldn't be anyplace to go.

Second, even though some managers would fly, it isn't nearly enough to cover the system, probably not even enough to keep the place from imploding on itself. Don't count on the regionals to pick up the slack either, they already have their hands full with their own flying. Besides, the most profitable international routes cannot be flown by the regionals anyway.

Third, PR. A strike isn't good PR under any circumstance. People hear of a strike and of an airline scrambling to replace it's pilots, the first things to come to mind are going to be safety and reliability. There is no shortage of competition out there, and most travelers would simply flock to other carriers. And don't think for a minute that the competition wouldn't add additional flights and airframes to cities impacted by a labor dispute.

Fourth, training costs. Where is NWA going to get the money to train 5400 scabs? They would bankrupt themselves just paying for the training expenses.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

They can threaten to do that, but it wouldn't work. Northwest has about what, 5400 pilots? What do they fly? B-747's (200's and 400's), B-757's DC-9's, A319/320's, A330's, and DC-10's? A lot of training on a lot of different airframes, including three positions on two different fleets.

Assuming the pilots walk, Northwest (or any airline) for that matter cannot possibly hire and train that many pilots fast enough to survive.

First, the airplanes do not fly, the revenue does not accumulate. If they were to hire scabs off the street, it would take them 3-5 days just to go through indoc. 3-5 days of airplanes just sitting around would sink them, especially given their currrent financial situation. You can hire current/qualified people, but they can't be put into the cockpit overnight. By the time the scabs are trained and ready, there wouldn't be anyplace to go.

Second, even though some managers would fly, it isn't nearly enough to cover the system, probably not even enough to keep the place from imploding on itself. Don't count on the regionals to pick up the slack either, they already have their hands full with their own flying. Besides, the most profitable international routes cannot be flown by the regionals anyway.

Third, PR. A strike isn't good PR under any circumstance. People hear of a strike and of an airline scrambling to replace it's pilots, the first things to come to mind are going to be safety and reliability. There is no shortage of competition out there, and most travelers would simply flock to other carriers. And don't think for a minute that the competition wouldn't add additional flights and airframes to cities impacted by a labor dispute.

Fourth, training costs. Where is NWA going to get the money to train 5400 scabs? They would bankrupt themselves just paying for the training expenses.

NWA is doing everything you claim that "they cant do" as we speak with 1200 replacement flight attendants and over a 1000 mechanics. These people are trained and ready to go. They will be in position on Aug 19. With the flight attendants , management even made the PFAA ones train their replacements on actual aircraft! Hows that for good faith bargaining? This is a learning experience for NWA management. Next time they will have a system to train just enough pilots to bust the pilot union.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Hey did the Mesaba guys write the scope that gave them your flying, or did your MEC? Did the Duane Woerth sign the contract with the NWA MEC Chair? Did your fellow NWA pilots ratify the contract, with its scope provisions?

I'm not sure why you are complaining to a guy who flew Dash 8's. It is not like any of his fellow regional pilots had anything to do with the scope the NWA Pilot Reps and ALPA National negotiated. It appears your own MEC is who you should be angry with.

I fully expect ALPA to fly through a strike when Duane Woerth gets his picture taken eating cake and ice cream with Continental scabs. ALPA has lost any sense of what a union should be.

"Willow Run Vortex" that is not a reference to some General Motors engine is it? If so, I'm going to change my screen name to SVT4ME.

~~~^~~~

Originally Posted by dbrownie
Cactus-Wrench,

"That has already started at the pilot group. We have lost tons of flying to contract companies, (Mesaba and Pinnacle). No other group has stepped up to stop it. I don't expect anyone to.



Dave B"



You completely missed the point of my post ~~~^~~~. I was being sarcastic because dbrownie stated that NWA was losing main-line flying to Mesaba and Pinnacle. Then I saw DHC8 in his profile and asked him if he used to be one of the guys he was referring to.

People before you respond to a post do EVERYONE a favor and read the whole thread so you dont look like an idiot.

 

[Dan Roman]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5548097.html

Looks to me like management has decided Northwest needs to be a non-union airline. They will keep chiping away at the unions till they are gone. Look at Continental, in hind site, killing the unions and starting all over again ended up leaving CO in a relativly strong position, albeit they suffered for years. Looks like NWA is going down that same path. My prediction is they are looking to be non or weak union carrier with new generation(787) aircraft 5 years from now. What happens in the mean (pun intended) time will not be pretty.
Good luck guys

 

[Tref]

The consensus is that NWA ALPA will still fly, in fact if you call NWA contract negotiations right now, they will probably tell you that. Soooooooooooo, management is demanding the moon. Who needs the club? THE MECHANICS!

WRV,

NWA ALPA doesn't do what you and your consensus decides it is going to do. They will decide what course of action to take. You may be right, you may be wrong. My point is that the decision has either not been made, or at least has not been made public, despite your apparent psychic abilities.

 

[VABB]

Well thats not me. My family has a personal stake in what is transpiring at NWA. The simple fact of the matter is the NWA pilots are empowering NWA management, albeit indirectly. Anyone who has ANY excperience with the culture of NWA management knows that is a group that needs to be taken down a few notches not given more leverage.

Personal stake? Dude, you're a former fellow-Yipper who now flies for Spirit. What kind of stake could you and your family possibly have in NWA? Frequent-flier miles?