NWA Early Retirements with Permanent Part-time Flying.

[patrickdc9]

Source is 2007 Aviation Daily statistics. They also match ALPA's report and include lease costs whether they be cap. leases or operating leases.

You point is correct about scope and well taken.

The talk is that fuel prices have overcome scope concerns. But, their own data shows that they are wrong. For instance:

CASM (again)
MD88: 7.5
CRJ900: 7.3

Yes, that is close - but - the CRJ900's can be financed with SkyWest's money, not Delta's precious cash. And, airlines like SkyWest and Republic will pay big up front bucks to buy in to codeshare arrangements. RAH gave US Air something like 300 million and SkyWest paid $425,000,000.00 for ASA.

I'm hoping the more militant NWA guys help fix our perspectives on scope. I personally would like to get Compass on the list as a way to start returning this flying to mainline.

"Militant"? Aren't Delta guys the ones who wear the Navy Admiral uniforms?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Former Marines run the uniform requirements. Good luck trying to convince them that Delta needs to change.

I'm more concerned about whether I have a job than if I wear a hat while grabbing coffee in the terminal.

Correction - there are no "former" Marines.

 

[Superpilot92]

Are you talking about the DC9's ?

160 pre bankruptcy, and 87 now...then you can hammer him for being 27 off...but, I believe the point he is making is that by summers end another 27 will be parked and that will leave a fleet of about sixty, we will already of absorbed the fleet shrinkage into our staffing and this will be done well before any SLI or actual merger consumation.

Thats correct

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas SP,

Not sure where the DAL hatin' is coming from all of a sudden. Last word I got was that joint contract talks were going to be expedited, and that everyone was on the same page.

I mean, RA himself said that EVERYONE was going to be treated equally and that a joint contract, quickly, was in everyone's best interest.

Funny that the DAL guys only push the company line when it's in their favor.

Nu

 

[PCL_128]

Correction - there are no "former" Marines.

Good thing you threw that in before Occam showed up.

 

[General Lee]

Heyas SP,

Not sure where the DAL hatin' is coming from all of a sudden. Last word I got was that joint contract talks were going to be expedited, and that everyone was on the same page.

I mean, RA himself said that EVERYONE was going to be treated equally and that a joint contract, quickly, was in everyone's best interest.

Funny that the DAL guys only push the company line when it's in their favor.

Nu

Yeah, "outside forces" are not at work here.... Have you read the news lately Nu? Things aren't great for many airlines, and stand alone airlines(legacies anyway) really aren't doing great. Could we do better with a large network that really does connect the world?(Asia, Europe, S. America, Africa, and domestic) Maybe. It sure seems legacies with large gaps in their INTL networks aren't doing as well, and seem to be parking a lot of planes. Hopefully we can get a JOINT contract finished, and the SLI too. Conditions around us aren't getting better it seems, if you didn't notice because you don't trust anyone......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Heyas SP,

Not sure where the DAL hatin' is coming from all of a sudden. Last word I got was that joint contract talks were going to be expedited, and that everyone was on the same page.

I mean, RA himself said that EVERYONE was going to be treated equally and that a joint contract, quickly, was in everyone's best interest.

Funny that the DAL guys only push the company line when it's in their favor.

Nu

My guess is that the Delta line guys are scared to death of SLI while the DC9's and 747-200's are on the property and the NWA guys like "expedited" for the very same reason.

SuperPilot92:
The scope of the new combined company will be what dictates what happens with the dc9s. Our scope prohibits just parking all of them so it has yet to be seen what happens under the merged carrier. If they are parked after the merger than thats a DAL decision because under a stand alone NWA it wouldnt be an issue right now. You guys are arguing about something that hasnt even happened yet, relax.

Saying a DAL guy shouldn't be effected by aircraft retirements on the NWA side is like saying you have no right to any of the aircraft NWA brings to the table including the 787s that will eventually be here.

Super is already trying to blame Delta for parking the jurassic jets and taking the position that Delta should take a seniority hit.

We support immediate parity, SLI not so much. Delta pilots are pretty much guaranteed to lose. I've already been out on a job interview trying to ensure plans B & C are lined up. Planning for the worst, hoping for the best....

 

[~~~^~~~]

87 now...then you can hammer him for being 27 off...

87-50(ish)=37(ish).

So after noting that your friend is off by 75% (ish) I will comment that your math is also 33% (ish) off.

Taken together, your math is only 100% ish wrong

Just kidding.

 

[NuGuy]

My guess is that the Delta line guys are scared to death of SLI while the DC9's and 747-200's are on the property and the NWA guys like "expedited" for the very same reason.

I've already been out on a job interview trying to ensure plans B & C are lined up. Planning for the worst, hoping for the best....

Ahhh, OK. Got it.

You're only for the merger when it works to your perceived advantage. Yet you express surprise when the NWA guys are against it for the same reason.

I'll give credit where credit is due. DALPA has some pretty crafty guys/gals (props to their "spin machine").

But guess what? So does NWALPA. Guys and gals who are experienced with mergers and recalcitrant management and KNOW how to get their point across, even if not very delicately. Call them "thugs" if you want, but those are the kind of guys I want with me when I go into a bad neighborhood, which, as you pointed out, is EXACTLY where we're heading.

By the way, do you actually know how many DC-9s are PARKED versus RETIRED? The distinction is pretty important. Think "accumulator".

No lease payments, no hull insurance, just pull the covers off, add fuel and go flying. Heck, you don't even have to update the database.

Sorry your RJ buddies are getting jammed. Sucks. NWALPA, XJ and PCL had an industry changing agreement that would have prevented a lot of angst, but they didn't want to pay the freight on what came their way.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

Super is already trying to blame Delta for parking the jurassic jets and taking the position that Delta should take a seniority hit.

We support immediate parity, SLI not so much. ....

If your going to try and "call me out" on my position, please include everything. Re-read what i said, see below~

"Saying a DAL guy shouldn't be effected by aircraft retirements on the NWA side is like saying you have no right to any of the aircraft NWA brings to the table including the 787s that will eventually be here."

we ALL should have EQUAL effects from the merger. DAL guys could be effected by the DC9s in a good or bad way but they will also be effected by the 787s and everything else NWA brings to the merger. We are all going to see changes with the new company including seniority and some will be effected more than other but thats part of a merger, right? In the long run it should be a good deal for all. Mergers are when you merge, and that includes winning and losing. The future plans of the new DAL will be just that, new plans. Growth and success will come at the expense of both NWA and DAL. I wasn't "blaming DAL" for anything, i was just saying if that happens under the merged carrier than its a new DAL decision, meaning OUR company's decision. You choose to point out half of my comments and surprise surprise you did so that it would best suit your comments. How unusual

 

[FDJ2]

Funny that the DAL guys only push the company line when it's in their favor.

Nu

Why on earth would we push the company line, whatever that is, when it is not.

When our interests are aligned with management's, there is no need to spit on their shoes. IOW, no need for a confrontational relationship, when there is no confrontation. When our interests and management's are at odds, our relationship changes to a more adversarial relationship. It's that simple.

 

[FDJ2]

When DC-9s are parked, it will not because of the merger, it will be because, as a 35 year old airframe, it no longer makes sense to fly them. If anything they'll be around a little longer with the merger.

You don't see too many 707's flying part 121 do you? You won't see too many DC-9s in the near future either.

 

[NuGuy]

Why on earth would we push the company line, whatever that is, when it is not.

When our interests are aligned with management's, there is no need to spit on their shoes. IOW, no need for a confrontational relationship, when there is no confrontation. When our interests and management's are at odds, our relationship changes to a more adversarial relationship. It's that simple.

EXACTLY, so don't get yer panties in a wad when the NWA guys object to the way things go down when it is NOT in OUR interests.

But that's moot at the moment. Things are going to happen...in a hurry.

BTW, Moak just put out a pretty decent letter. Might calm some jangled nerves. We'll see.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

When DC-9s are parked, it will not because of the merger, it will be because, as a 35 year old airframe, it no longer makes sense to fly them. If anything they'll be around a little longer with the merger.

You don't see too many 707's flying part 121 do you? You won't see too many DC-9s in the near future either.

Well what i meant by that is that under a stand alone NWA they all wouldn't be parked immediately without big changes at NWA because of our scope language. Therefore we have protections on our jobs and NWA would need to replace them if they planned on parking all of them. Not to mention NWA wouldn't get rid of them immediately because we need those aircraft for our domestic feed since we dont have anything to replace them with right now. Under the merged carrier i think we will see additional 737s or airbus's coming as replacements in the future. We'll see.

 

[Superpilot92]

EXACTLY, so don't get yer panties in a wad when the NWA guys object to the way things go down when it is NOT in OUR interests.

But that's moot at the moment. Things are going to happen...in a hurry.

BTW, Moak just put out a pretty decent letter. Might calm some jangled nerves. We'll see.

Nu

What letter? Is it on the MEC page?