NWA/DAL 2000 Payrates

[B-J-J Fighter]

Is this coming from an RJ guy?

Yes it is tweedle dumb. I wish it worked at way but it doesn't.

 

[RedDogC130]

It takes 3 Southwest crews (on 3 seperate 737s)to carry the same amount of people and cargo as a 777 crew, yet the 777 Captain makes less than the SWA Captain. So, if the SWA Captain makes $210 an hour----3 of them equals $630 an hour. So, if our 777 carries twice the cargo and makes twice the revenue, there is no way he can make $300 an hour, which again is half of what it takes Southwest to carry the same amount of people and cargo? Unsustainable to ask for half of the $630 an hour? You are wrong. Now, we use 757s and 767s on routes that are common with SWA routes (like SEA to SLC, and LAX to SLC), and those planes are twice the size (757 vs 737) of the SWA planes, meaning 2 SWA planes equals a 757 or 767---cargo and pax compared to a 737, meaning $420 an hour for 2 SWA Captains vs one of ours making $170 an hour. Again, you are wrong.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Not sure on the math here because I do not know the pax capacity on the other aircraft but if you fly a 777 12 hours and carry x amount of people on 1 leg and our 737 flies 12 hours with multiple legs with x amount of total pax which plane makes more $$ over the 12 hours? typical 12 hours in SWA life is 6-7 legs......lets say we fill it up 137 people each leg. 7 x 137 = 959 people. lets say the average fare is $150 that equals $143,850...pilot cost $3200 based on a max out capt and 3rd year FO give or take a few bucks with our weird system of pay on a 12 hours scale. Someone fill in the blanks with the other numbers for a 777 numbers and see what it somes out to.

 

[General Lee]

It would be easy if it worked that way Gen, only problem is that it doesn't.

Thanks Dad, but yes it does. Comparing a Delta 757 or 767 to SLC from either of those cities with 2 SWA 737s is a great comparison. We fly twice the cargo, along with twice the pax--probably at about the same fares. Our pilots make less than half of what it takes to fly 2 SWA planes. It's great that SWA does well, and since BK and all of the pension clean ups etc, we are in better financial shape too. We are going to go for a lot better pay, and we deserve to get back some of what we lost-- a lot of it. And, SWA has to thank us for getting their rates up to where they are now (they compared our C2K rates to their's at the time), and we are happy to look at their rates during our next negotiations. To say otherwise is just wrong.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Not sure on the math here because I do not know the pax capacity on the other aircraft but if you fly a 777 12 hours and carry x amount of people on 1 leg and our 737 flies 12 hours with multiple legs with x amount of total pax which plane makes more $$ over the 12 hours? typical 12 hours in SWA life is 6-7 legs......lets say we fill it up 137 people each leg. 7 x 137 = 959 people. lets say the average fare is $150 that equals $143,850...pilot cost $3200 based on a max out capt and 3rd year FO give or take a few bucks with our weird system of pay on a 12 hours scale. Someone fill in the blanks with the other numbers for a 777 numbers and see what it somes out to.

Our 777LRs make LARGE bank on INTL flights (like Bombay (Mumbai) to ATL or Jo-berg to ATL), and those legs are over 14 hours long. They wouldn't be operating if they were not. Also, SWA planes only fly during the day, whereas our planes (738s and up) fly all day and all night usually). Hey, we lost a lot in BK and it is time to make some of that up. We are happy to use your current rates as a benchmark. (you used ours when you got your higher rates)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Our 777LRs make LARGE bank on INTL flights (like Bombay (Mumbai) to ATL or Jo-berg to ATL), and those legs are over 14 hours long. They wouldn't be operating if they were not. Also, SWA planes only fly during the day, whereas our planes (738s and up) fly all day and all night usually). Hey, we lost a lot in BK and it is time to make some of that up. We are happy to use your current rates as a benchmark. (you used ours when you got your higher rates)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Joberg, Lagos, and Dubai, yes..... Mumbai ceased operation a few days ago, i believe. If not, it's being pulled shortly. The yields weren't there. SYD is recovering and loads are picking up.

We're connecting through AMS with A330's to Mumbai.

 

[EMBpilot]

Just would be nice to see what we will never see again.

Why don't we stick together and double them.

If all stay on the same page - thats what it will take to fly airplanes.

 

[General Lee]

Joberg, Lagos, and Dubai, yes..... Mumbai ceased operation a few days ago, i believe. If not, it's being pulled shortly. The yields weren't there. SYD is recovering and loads are picking up.

We're connecting through AMS with A330's to Mumbai.

Yeah, I know. The reason we started that route was that at the time it was doing very well. The World economy has hurt that route, and even Air India is pulling the nonstops to JFK from Delhi and Mumbai. (going to 1 stoppers via LHR and FRA) But, my point is that Delta tends to put the 777s on routes that can do well. Do our Captains on it deserve AT LEAST what SWA 737 Captains make? Ummm, yeah, and I would say more thanks to the profit potential on each flight. We will be asking for it during upcoming negotiations. (and that 777 Capt pay is the same as 744 Capt pay---both of which need to come up)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Griswold]

General, I like it. Now tell me more about your DFW rumors.

 

[instructordude]

It's not what you think you are worth but what the company can pay. The economy is debilitating right now.

"Ask not what your company can do for you but what you can do for your company."

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Yeah, I know. The reason we started that route was that at the time it was doing very well. The World economy has hurt that route, and even Air India is pulling the nonstops to JFK from Delhi and Mumbai. (going to 1 stoppers via LHR and FRA) But, my point is that Delta tends to put the 777s on routes that can do well. Do our Captains on it deserve AT LEAST what SWA 737 Captains make? Ummm, yeah, and I would say more thanks to the profit potential on each flight. We will be asking for it during upcoming negotiations. (and that 777 Capt pay is the same as 744 Capt pay---both of which need to come up)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Absolutely agreed!

 

[General Lee]

It's not what you think you are worth but what the company can pay. The economy is debilitating right now.

"Ask not what your company can do for you but what you can do for your company."

I know you are trying to have fun here and it is fun reading your ridiculous posts (although Frank Lorenzo is a bit more funny), but Delta is the largest airline in the world, has plenty of cash on hand, and has "synergies" that are starting to pay off thanks to the merger, and they will continue to pay off in the future. We will capitalize on those.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

But the NWA guarantee was higher correct? 75 hours

Not sure what the NWA guarantee was, but the DAL reserve guarantee was 5 hours less than the monthly regular line cap, which was between 75 and 80 hours with a minimum numbers of days off for a regular line holder of between 14-16 days, depending on the cap. The annual average cap could not exceed 78:45 domestic and 79:45 int'l.

At the time it was not considered a good thing to have a high cap. The higher your cap the fewer the number of crews needed and the fewer days off. The emphasis was on high pay per hour of work and max days off with the ability to pick up premium flying.

 

[LandGreen]

Yes it is tweedle dumb. I wish it worked at way but it doesn't.

Oh...ok then....ummm...tell me again...what qualifies your outspoken opinion on mainline pay rates????

now IF we were talking RJ payrates, your opinion might be relevant, but I am legitimately curiously where your opinion fits into this discussion?

 

[GogglesPisano]

It's not what you think you are worth but what the company can pay. The economy is debilitating right now.

"Ask not what your company can do for you but what you can do for your company."

For a flamebaiter you're not even witty (zitty, perhaps, but not witty.) You can't hold a candle to Frank Lorenzo. Give up, game over. You're wasting everyone's time -- including your own.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

where has frankie been? always good for a laugh.

For a flamebaiter you're not even witty (zitty, perhaps, but not witty.) You can't hold a candle to Frank Lorenzo. Give up, game over. You're wasting everyone's time -- including your own.

 

[JimmyKool]

Those payrates are unsustainable in todays competitive market. Be realistic in your demands.

you know nothing.....SHUT UP!

 

[Captain X]

Jeezus you guys are wound up tight!

"Yeah, but..."

 

[dojetdriver]

Does anyone know where I can find pay scales from 2000? Just would be nice to see what we will never see again.

Check your PM's

 

[bouttime]

I'm one of those morons. Can you please post a link explaining this gvt tax or can you explain it using small word (pictures would be even better)?

This is put very briefly:
Today our government simply creates or borrows money in order to meet their budget. The money is not backed by anything at all, the gold standard is old news. With the new amounts of cash injected in the money supply it does not raise the value of goods and services paid for, it simply reduces the value of the dollar.

If we take an example of a group of 20 people and each one of them has 10 dollars to buy different goods and services from each other, you will find market prices for those goods and services. No give each person 500 dollars and you will find the prices shoot up not because their value has gone up, but because the value of the money has decreased.

Think about what has happened in today's world- the government has just created or borrowed 1 trillion dollars!
Please read this book: The Creature From Jekkyl Island by G. Edward Griffen. It is the most educational book on this topic. Don't feel bad about not knowing this information, 95% of Americans could not tell you where the money supply comes from and how banks operate.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Don't feel bad about not knowing this information, 95% of Americans could not tell you where the money supply comes from and how banks operate.

I don't feel bad. You didn't explain anything new to me. I was just waiting for luckytohaveajob to explain to me how, "Inflation is a hidden government controlled tax which always increases."

You gotta love FI.com and the hit-and-run posters.