NWA answer to pending strike of FA's

[eaglefly]

NWA will never be "THE CARRIER" to work for. Unless of course they get rid of every flight attendant they have, followed by majority of the gate agents and top it off by shutting down DTW and MEM (probably the worst hubs in the history of commercial aviation) and half of their &^*7 for brains -- pilots. Do that and then they might possibly have a chance.

Don't forget terminating the ENTIRE management team.

Let's remember to place the blame where the incompatence and ethical bankruptcy is.

 

[AAflyer]

Double post.

 

[AAflyer]

I don't know why I bother......only negativity, doom and gloom, and anonymous flaming are welcome here.....

.....yes, NWA got slammed hard, and is a shadow of the former place it was to work. That said it is still better than ANY regional, ANY 121 Supplemental, and anything other than perhaps FDX, UPS if are young enough (and if you don't mind the schedule and no pass privlidges) and SWA (if you don't mind the kind of flying for the rest of your life). AA is going to get hit hard, and CAL while perhaps a happier place to work has no better total benefits. U/AWA had lower pay and benefits before we even took the cuts. JB and AirTran are going to be the next Peoples Express and Western Pacific. The Fracs are the JB of corporate aviation, and I'll never schlep another rich guys bag, empty their feces from the head, or eat their left over catering again.

Except for the 3 aforementioned, every other job in the aviation industry is worse than what NWA has to offer. They have the best long term outlook in the industry, and I'll bet 5 yrs from now will be THE carrier everyone wants to get on with.

I have to truly laugh when I hear indignant RJ pilots talk about how they would never apply at NWA. Please, pass all your names so we can make sure not even to waste the paper on sending you an application.

YourPilotFriend has a lot of the details correct, and I agree with a lot of his assessments of the future staffing and upgrade scenarios there. Yeah the pay sucks and will for a while. Please enjoy your much better RJ career, or driving a cab that I hear is so much better a living......

Please do tell, how is AA going to get hit so hard? By what?

Maybe I will just follow what your signature says. You seem to have everything figured out!!!

AAflyer

May I recommend a side gig with Air Inc, to supplement your NWA pay.

 

[accinelli]

Don't forget terminating the ENTIRE management team.

Let's remember to place the blame where the incompatence and ethical bankruptcy is.

Learn to spell first. Its no fun debating with an idiot.

 

[Fly4hire]

Please do tell, how is AA going to get hit so hard? By what?

Maybe I will just follow what your signature says. You seem to have everything figured out!!!

AAflyer

May I recommend a side gig with Air Inc, to supplement your NWA pay.

I predict that AA, either in or out of Ch11 will endure further concessions that will lower you within a percentage point or two of all the other post or current Ch11 legacy carriers. The only reason you are not Ch11 now is that APA caved deep and early the first time in an honest effort to avoid Ch11, but it's still not enough to compete against the current DAL,CAL, UAL, NWA, and U/AWA cost structure.

Not a statement of what's right or wrong, or who set the precedent, just how I see it shaking out. I do however find it a little ironic, that NWA, as the latest to cave is villified as the scourge of the industry, where all those that set the stage for NWA's Ch11 contract are somehow now vindicated......

..

 

[AAflyer]

I predict that AA, either in or out of Ch11 will endure further concessions that will lower you within a percentage point or two of all the other post or current Ch11 legacy carriers. The only reason you are not Ch11 now is that APA caved deep and early the first time in an honest effort to avoid Ch11, but it's still not enough to compete against the current DAL,CAL, UAL, NWA, and U/AWA cost structure.

Not a statement of what's right or wrong, or who set the precedent, just how I see it shaking out. I do however find it a little ironic, that NWA, as the latest to cave is villified as the scourge of the industry, where all those that set the stage for NWA's Ch11 contract are somehow now vindicated......

..

You are not villified, every legacy pilot group has done their fair share to destroy what we once known as "the bar". However you should study your costs more closely. We would need to give on productivity alone to meet CAL's pilot costs. Our S80 crews now have an aircraft specific CASM close to that of SWA.

With (as you like to say) our high costs we still posted a roughly $300 million 2nd quarter profit. We will post a 3rd quarter profit, and most likekly a profit for the year. We will not be giving into another concessionary contract.

What I find ironic is you seem almost seem giddy at the thought of another pilot group taking it in the shorts.

AAflyer

By the way, when your pilot group went to negotiate we and most other legacies were operating under our concessionary contract, why wouldn't you just give in... So you could compete like you are now, why the big "we will walk we will strike ploy?" Why can your company not afford to pay you your old rates? Do you think that is the reason you went banckrupt? You are a management wet dream.

Why could you not get SWA payrates. If their rates are so high won't SWA go out of business? Pilot costs do not cause an airline to go out of business. A poor management team and poor business strategy cause a company to go out of business.

We are no where near BK. Sorry....

 

[eaglefly]

Learn to spell first. Its no fun debating with an idiot.

A feeble attempt at verbal retaliation.

If that's your best (a spelling or grammatical error), then you've failed miserably.

I like to debate with someone I can identify.

"accinelli" sounds like you combined your rectum with an Italian dinner dish.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Y


Why could you not get SWA payrates. If their rates are so high won't SWA go out of business? Pilot costs do not cause an airline to go out of business. A poor management team and poor business strategy cause a company to go out of business.

We are no where near BK. Sorry....

Two words: "pricing power". If you can't set tickets to the price you make money your airline goes out of business even if you have a management dream team. Employee costs are part of the big picture. The reason SWA was so successful was because it had an untouchable model that could go into an airport analyze the best routes, cut fares to increase capacity and make loads of cash. Now it appears SWA is looking for its own routes to compete in markets with themselves. I don't understand it at all. We have the same CASM on routes we get a high RPM on and SWa comes in and lowers the RPM. There is no increase in capacity or money to be made in these tapped out markets. Now as SWa loses its prcing power it will somehow have to find a way to increase its load factors to generate the same revenue to reach predicted targets. However, now SWa should be controlling capacity, but instead they are adding it. Things should get interesting.

 

[Fly4hire]

What I find ironic is you seem almost seem giddy at the thought of another pilot group taking it in the shorts.

Not at all - the more carriers that can keep scales higher the better for the rest of us to eventually pattern bargin back up. I do unfortunately see the pattern against us at the moment for the pax carriers.

Why could you not get SWA payrates. If their rates are so high won't SWA go out of business? Pilot costs do not cause an airline to go out of business. A poor management team and poor business strategy cause a company to go out of business.

Labor was absolutely not the cause of BK, however once we were there they were able to effectively bludgeon us with threats of dire consequences. They did a better job of negotiating than we did.

We are no where near BK. Sorry

Hope you stay that way, however I have no doubt AA will use the threat thereof - like they did last time - to have their way with you. Want to talk about mgmt wet dreams - they didn't even have to go there to get what they wanted out of you.

 

[canyonblue]

I don't understand it at all. We have the same CASM on routes we get a high RPM on and SWa comes in and lowers the RPM.

That's why you're a Management Pilot and not Upper Management. You say you don't understand it, heck your whole Management at Northwest doesnt understand it. And they never will.

 

[canyonblue]

SWA was an absolute joke of a carrier to go to compared to the legacies of old; which doesn't say much for the legacies of now.

Obviously I didnt get the joke.

No, pilot pay will not increase at NWA, at least not anytime soon. To compete with and stay an LCC, employee cost structure must remain low.

Are you Steenland? Because you sure sound like him.uke:

 

[AAflyer]

Two words: "pricing power". If you can't set tickets to the price you make money your airline goes out of business even if you have a management dream team. Employee costs are part of the big picture. The reason SWA was so successful was because it had an untouchable model that could go into an airport analyze the best routes, cut fares to increase capacity and make loads of cash. Now it appears SWA is looking for its own routes to compete in markets with themselves. I don't understand it at all. We have the same CASM on routes we get a high RPM on and SWa comes in and lowers the RPM. There is no increase in capacity or money to be made in these tapped out markets. Now as SWa loses its prcing power it will somehow have to find a way to increase its load factors to generate the same revenue to reach predicted targets. However, now SWa should be controlling capacity, but instead they are adding it. Things should get interesting.

While I understand your point, could you explain why NWA, and even the other legacies excepted packages less than that of the LCCs? We were just as guilty.

If you look at the PACKAGES ( not just the pay rates, however rthey are good as well) the LCCs are offering more in compensation.Your hourly rate on the 747 is roughly $178 and SWA is now $198 , why the disparity to compete? I can only imagine the revenue the 747 brings in cargo alone.

Why would legacies need to drive their costs lower than that of SWA and other LCCs. IMO because they have expensive bloated management teams, they still operate in bloated ways, the cost of running the airline is more than the cost of running an LCC. However why should YOU subsidize that? That sounds like a mangement issue to deal with. You fly, they run the airline.

We were ALL taken advantage of, this has been all out lynching on airline labor. However from many ofthe SEC reports I look at the top is still compensating them well.

AAflyer

 

[AAflyer]

Not at all - the more carriers that can keep scales higher the better for the rest of us to eventually pattern bargin back up. I do unfortunately see the pattern against us at the moment for the pax carriers.




Labor was absolutely not the cause of BK, however once we were there they were able to effectively bludgeon us with threats of dire consequences. They did a better job of negotiating than we did.



Hope you stay that way, however I have no doubt AA will use the threat thereof - like they did last time - to have their way with you. Want to talk about mgmt wet dreams - they didn't even have to go there to get what they wanted out of you.

You are very right, and it is one reason I voted no. They threatened BK, however we were watching what was going on to the UAL pilots. They were getting hammered. So in the end, what appeared to be a stupid move actually left us on top of the heep (Legacy that is).

We need some type of restructuring, however those can be done in many different ways, including a cash infusion from anothe investor. Debt has started to be chipped at. WE have been showing continual operating profits, as well as quarter profits. For the most part our pensions are well funded. Yes they have a deficit, however AA (thanks to Beacon Investments) have kept the pensions above water with good returns. We ahve roughly 6 Billion in the bank.

I am not niave, it wouldn't take much to level the playing field again. I would also be remiss in not stating that we are still wounded. However things have been working in our favor.

We will know what the company wants on Sept 20, when they hand over their openers.

I truly wish NWA the best, I live in MSP and have always had a soft spot for the airline, not to mention the excellent treatment I get when jumpseating.

AAflyer

 

[YourPilotFriend]

While I understand your point, could you explain why NWA, and even the other legacies excepted packages less than that of the LCCs? We were just as guilty.

If you look at the PACKAGES ( not just the pay rates, however rthey are good as well) the LCCs are offering more in compensation.Your hourly rate on the 747 is roughly $178 and SWA is now $198 , why the disparity to compete? I can only imagine the revenue the 747 brings in cargo alone.

Why would legacies need to drive their costs lower than that of SWA and other LCCs. IMO because they have expensive bloated management teams, they still operate in bloated ways, the cost of running the airline is more than the cost of running an LCC. However why should YOU subsidize that? That sounds like a mangement issue to deal with. You fly, they run the airline.

We were ALL taken advantage of, this has been all out lynching on airline labor. However from many ofthe SEC reports I look at the top is still compensating them well.

AAflyer

Because with profits come pay raises or at least no paycut. The companies already set the RPM bar below that which they could make money due to market pressure from the LCC's. If they hadn't, SWA would be twice as big as it is today and you would be out of a job. Instead they turned their focus to cut costs to where they do make money; i.e. shrink capacity, cut employee pay, and new lease rates...etc.

Why so low? becuase what you see here today is not what this profession is going to look like very soon. We are actively creating global airlines to compete in and on the global scale. in ten years the sky team alliance will be known as sky team airlines. The LCC's will either be mergered into these global companies, be bought out, or they could cease operations, I don't know what they are going to do with them. However, your package is the global economy payscale, trust me, you are still making golden years salaries compared to what is going to be the average salary in the future. Unfortunately, right now the airlines happened to take it up the butt first. As such only the strong will survive the very difficult transition in the future of the airline business, since it is going to get worse than right now.

 

[AAflyer]

Because with profits come pay raises or at least no paycut. The companies already set the RPM bar below that which they could make money due to market pressure from the LCC's. If they hadn't, SWA would be twice as big as it is today and you would be out of a job. Instead they turned their focus to cut costs to where they do make money; i.e. shrink capacity, cut employee pay, and new lease rates...etc.

Why so low? becuase what you see here today is not what this profession is going to look like very soon. We are actively creating global airlines to compete in and on the global scale. in ten years the sky team alliance will be known as sky team airlines. The LCC's will either be mergered into these global companies, be bought out, or they could cease operations, I don't know what they are going to do with them. However, your package is the global economy payscale, trust me, you are still making golden years salaries compared to what is going to be the average salary in the future. Unfortunately, right now the airlines happened to take it up the butt first. As such only the strong will survive the very difficult transition in the future of the airline business, since it is going to get worse than right now.

You just figured that out? It started with Preseug (SP). Britiannia and TUI, where a group or alliance made the first aircraft purchase for 2-3 airlines in the group.

Well, I am sure that the Cathay Pilots, and BA pilots will be thrilled with our addition to their "bar". Out of curiosity when you look at what Ryan Air pilots make, do you change that into American dollars. They do rather well don't they.

I have never seen a pilot make so many excuses, rationalize, and not to mention pander their thoughts on why we should be paid less money.

May I ask exactly who you work for, and what your job title is?

AAflyer