NWA and ERAU hiring program

[T-handle]

In a related topic to the ERAU grads and hiring, this just out in the latest ERAU alumni newsletter

"Embry-Riddle and Northwest Sign Hiring Agreement"
Embry-Riddle and Northwest Airlines have agreed to implement a Dual-Track Hiring Program.
The program establishes initial selection criteria, course requirements, minimum flight experience requirements, and transport-category aircraft training at Northwest Airlines for qualified aeronautical science students at Embry-Riddle's residential campuses. Selected students will have the opportunity to be employed by Northwest immediately after graduation.
"We are delighted to enter into this landmark agreement with Northwest," said George Ebbs, university president. "This program shrinks the gap between degree completion and employment as a flight crewmember and gives graduates the opportunity to apply their knowledge of jet transport aircraft and airline operations immediately after graduation from our aeronautical science degree program."
Embry-Riddle and Northwest will jointly screen candidates for one of two tracks: certified flight instructor (CFI) to line pilot or aircrew training instructor (ATI) to line pilot. To qualify for screening, candidates must complete the sophomore year of the aeronautical science program, academically rank in the top 20 percent of their class, and be recommended by an Embry-Riddle professor.
Accepted students will attend Northwest Airlines-specific seminars at Embry-Riddle, achieve multi-engine and CFI ratings, and complete a one-semester internship at the airline that includes ground school and simulator time in Northwest designated aircraft.
Students will be further screened for pilot or flight crew instructor employment pending completion of the program. Graduates in the CFI track must complete 18 months as an Embry-Riddle flight instructor, while the ATI track requires 30 months as a flight crew instructor.
"Northwest is committed to providing our customers with the safest and most professionally trained pilots in the world," said Capt. Jeff Carlson, the airline's vice president of flight operations. "That's why we selected Embry-Riddle to be our education partner. Our relationship with Embry-Riddle ensures that our new-hire pilots have received the most comprehensive training available."
Northwest Airlines is the world's fourth-largest airline, with hubs in Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Memphis, Tokyo, and Amsterdam, and more than 1,400 daily departures. With it's travel partners, it serves more than 785 cities in 120 countries on six continents.

Another eye roller....

 

[XJAVRO]

That made my day. I haven't laughed that hard in weeks. To all the old time captains at NWA ever try flying your plane single pilot. If not you'll have a chance when these kids end up online.

 

[BoredToDeath]

This business is goin to s*&t...Someone stop the world, I'm ready to get off! And to all of you at these schools (ERAU, PaAm,FSI ect.) stop trying to shortcut yourselfs out of good experiances. Everyone makes a mistake in this industry, better you make it flying charter or something like that than at a major airline. The lessons you'll learn from teaching people in a 172 for a few hundred hours and flying single pilot IFR for a check running co. are priceless.

 

[alek]

I don't think this is true for Major NWA, I think this is for Airlink. I was myself intern in Flight Safety many years ago and they told me ones you have enough flight time they might talk to you. I think NWA is one of the difficult ones to fly for if you don't have enough flight time. Maybe it will work, good luck from pistoff Captains to Republic guys. I guess if UAL can do it why can't NWA.

Good luck to all, Fly Safe, Stay unified and Communicate!


Happy New Year 2002!

 

[bigboy]

WOW.
If this is true , that means you will have poeple flying C-172 to go and fly airbuses, and boeings.Im not saying that there is any thing wrong with flying the 172, but most of us started as CFI's including me , and you think you know it all when you get your CFI ticket ,but there is soo much to learn out there , starting with being a CFI which forces you to be a better pilot , because the person setting next to you( your students) will kill you if you are not ahead of the game , and charter flying single pilot at night in all different weather conditions,will teach how to fly real IFR.
Korean Air has their FO's flying airbuses and boeings fresh out of flight school, and they have one of the worst saftey records out there.hope that won't be the case with NWA. happy newyear.

 

[chperplt]

Let's not forget that this program was born before Sep 11th.. Maybe it is a thing of the past by now.

 

[bobbysamd]

Shortcuts to a Major Airline Career

With everything I've seen on this board and everything I learned about hiring ten years ago I could write a book with the above title .

Chperplt has a point about 911. Notwithstanding his point, though, to quote Ringo Starr, "You got to pay your dues before you can sing the blues, and it don't come easy." I second Bigboy and Bored to Death. Experience is the best teacher. I must reiterate that I still can't believe how much I learned about aviation as a flight instructor. And don't believe everything you read, either.

 

[Vik]

It might be shocking and it isn't just Korean Airlines that does this sort of practice.

Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Swissair, etc .. have some sort of cadet program. You go from zero hours to babysitting the autopilot on jet. You do this for 2yrs and then actually get to touch the controls.

Korean Airlines is not unsafe do to young cadets screwing up. They have much bigger issues there.

 

[Beechnut]

Alek,
This program is set of for Northwest Airlines. Not Express or Mesaba. I have a copy of the Riddle Magazine here and it explains the requirements for being considered.

I sure hope it was canceled after the attacks. It's bad enough we (Riddle grads) have these silly programs in place for regionals, let alone majors.

S.

...yet another Riddle eye roller.

 

[pilotguyt]

NWA has been doing this for a while

I am by no means saying that I am right or know much about the subject but from what I understand a program similar to this has been in effect for a while. A friend of mine told me a while ago that he was told of a program where you could teach NWA ground school for 3 years upon which point you would be offered a position as a FO. He had heard this from a NWA pilot I believe. Like I said, I"m not trying to incite anything here, I am just curious if I am right or misinformed.

 

[publisher]

Date

This program was officially signed at the ERAU Career Expo well after the 11th . Susan Blair and Capt Ed Davidson were at the school for the signing of the agreement/

 

[bobbysamd]

NWA/ERAU

I remember that when I instructed at Riddle there were always a few, shall we say, subpar students. These were students who should have been washed out of FA 104 but for their bigtime parents who bought them tons of XT and who had phone conversations with the Department Chairman and/or training managers. These same students were generally unmotivated and/or were terrible students and pilots but still graduated with their certificates, thanks to Captain Dad.

I guess these folks will get their next chance at NWA, because they wouldn't stand a chance in the real world. (sigh)

 

[Visceral]

Many people on these aviation boards are really hung up on people paying their dues. Just because thats the way it was done in the past doesn't mean it has to be or will continue to be that way in the future. Like Vik said, countless other airlines basically OJT their pilots and they aren't falling out of the sky at any faster rate than our own airlines. Another example is one near and dear to my heart, the USAF. Take some puke straight outta college who often has never been in a cockpit, and in a few months, hes soloing a twin engine jet trainer. After a year and some change, he's in his assigned aircraft, heavy or fighter, flying across the ocean with troops or bombs. Has he "paid his dues" in that short time of a year? You guys need to at least conceive of the notion that things can be done in ways that diverge from the past.

 

[Ty Webb]

This is an insult to the Industry in general, and to furloughed NWA pilots in particular.

I am sure that these "preferred" students think that they are ready for the big time, but they aren't even ready to fly cancelled checks in a C210!

NWA is an airline that should know better, yet here they are, apparently wanting to put these guys into a 480 Kt turbojet. Hmmnnnn

Sounds to me like someone at NWA wants to have a pipeline for "preferred" students . . . . . as in "preferred" by their parent (a high-ranking NWA pilot, no doubt) or "preferred" by the EEOC, or "preferred" by the Marketing Dept. at Riddle, but you can bet that these "pilots" will not be "preferred" by any of the Line Pilots at NWA.

 

[Beechnut]

Many people on these aviation boards are really hung up on people paying their dues. Just because thats the way it was done in the past doesn't mean it has to be or will continue to be that way in the future. Like Vik said, countless other airlines basically OJT their pilots and they aren't falling out of the sky at any faster rate than our own airlines. Another example is one near and dear to my heart, the USAF. Take some puke straight outta college who often has never been in a cockpit, and in a few months, hes soloing a twin engine jet trainer. After a year and some change, he's in his assigned aircraft, heavy or fighter, flying across the ocean with troops or bombs. Has he "paid his dues" in that short time of a year? You guys need to at least conceive of the notion that things can be done in ways that diverge from the past

Dues has nothing to do with it, and the discussion is NOT about military training or military folks going to the majors.

It's about a kid that hasn't scared himself in anything bigger than a 172 being put up for a job that he isn't ready for.

This argument can be summed up by experience. You can talk about teachability (that's from my G.W. Bush Dictionary) but when it comes down to it, the kid probably hasn't done anything yet. Hasn't shot an approach to mins, hasn't dealt with other crew members, hasn't operated a turbine engine of any kind. More strikes in the "have not" column than in the "yeah, I've done that" column. So with that being said, is that kid ready to handle that DC-9 into Detroit with a 100 ft ceiling and 1/4 mile vis and an unusually high ref speed due to icing onto the iced up runway?

Nope.

S.

 

[Vik]

I guess the difference between the foreign airlines having cadet programs and this ERAU-NWA deal is that NWA wants to let these kids actually FLY the plane while the foreign airlines make the cadets babysit the autopilot for a couple of years (if not more) while doing a lot of intense sim training. Also, even after they are ready to upgrade to actually touching the controls, the flights are in VFR situations with an experienced Captain by their side. Even they aren't crazy enough to put inexperienced pilots into a jet down to minimums.

 

[gnx99]

Strange stuff

What's NWA's reason for this? I can see for regionals, but a major?

Aren't there literally thousands of regional pilots with thousands of hours in t-props and jets that would love the chance to get hired by NWA or another major? Common sense would say, hire the regional pilots first.

 

[othello]

Wow, correct me if Iam wrong but the last I heard was that ERAU Instructors aern't even allowed to go IMC with their Ifr students? If they can't take there little c-172 in the clouds, I don't want to be sitting in the back of an A320 when one of these guys comes out of their18 mo sim deal and lines up for a snow covered 1600 RVR launch out of MSP.
I also heard that NWA offered Mesaba (xj) prefered hire deal something like 10 or 12% of new hires would be garunteed from XJ. We turned them down pre 9/11 18% of new hires were already XJ pilots.

Fly Safe, O.

 

[LITCHAT7]

Nothing new

Northwest has had this program for some time. Its not as great as it sounds (at least thats the way I viewed it). You dont have to be an ERAU grad to take advantage. I got all my ratings part 61, started instructing, and then happened on an opportunity to ground instruct at NWA.. Same program basically. Was told after 3 years (and certain other hoops to jump through) I would "most-likely" be offered a position on-line. Yet nothing is definite! I could invest (3) years there, ON THE GROUND, and the program may wash (like others they've had). I chose the sure way to a flight deck (went to the regionals). I am sure I made the right choice. Even if I dont make it to the majors as fast, make less money (pay is fairly decsent for ground instructors), etc., etc., I simply love flying the line more than staying on the ground teaching somthing I'd have no practical experience with. So far, not to many have made it through these programs. I think its a case of dangling a carrot to get low-cost ground instructors really! Not bad thinking on their part.

 

[bobbysamd]

Foreign airline training

Maybe Riddle-Daytona is different, but at Prescott we used to take students to the LA Basin so they could shoot approaches in safe actual. It was a great experience for all.

I just want to add a comment about foreign airline training. These programs use a building-block philosophy and are very strict. They produce well-trained pilots. I taught Alitalia students at FSI for a year and became familiar with its program. We received students who were selected by the airline to be trained and had earned their PPLs in Italy. We trained them for their Commercial-Multi-Instrument using Alitalia's line procedures and LOFT philosophy. An Alitalia training captain was always on site and scrutinized the students very closely. After earning their U.S. certificates they went back to Alitalia's Flight Academy in Alghero to fly Cheyennes for another couple hundred of hours. I believe this involved a great deal of enroute IFR training. Then, at about 500 hours, they trained for the line to fly DC-9s. Of course, all of this training was highly structured and no hours were wasted boring holes in the sky.

I know that Lufthansa's and ANA's programs are similar from a friend(s) who worked at their schools in Goodyear and Bakersfield.

 

[chperplt]

othello

Not sure where you heard that IMC was not allowed, but that's not the case.. at least not at the Daytona campus. I took my students IMC every chance I could.

 

[bigboy]

Many people on these aviation boards are really hung up on people paying their dues. Just because thats the way it was done in the past doesn't mean it has to be or will continue to be that way in the future. Like Vik said, countless other airlines basically OJT their pilots and they aren't falling out of the sky at any faster rate than our own airlines. Another example is one near and dear to my heart, the USAF. Take some puke straight outta college who often has never been in a cockpit, and in a few months, hes soloing a twin engine jet trainer. After a year and some change, he's in his assigned aircraft, heavy or fighter, flying across the ocean with troops or bombs. Has he "paid his dues" in that short time of a year? You guys need to at least conceive of the notion that things can be done in ways that diverge from the past.

Saftey records, in the USA is the best in the world, that tells you that the system (Paying your dues) works. its that simple.

 

[Visceral]

Yeah, I UNDERSTAND what the discussion is about , I'm just pointing out that other organizations do things in different ways, and those ways WORK too. I can have 9000 hours turbine experience, have shot 700 approaches to mins, and flown all over the world and still be a bad pilot with lousy CRM. The accident at Tenerife was caused by their top pilot(I forget his airline). I'm not saying this particular program is good or bad, I'm saying "paying dues" can be done in different ways. As far as saying the US safety records are the best in the world, what exactly do you mean. Are you talking accident rates? Saying US airlines crash less because their pilots are not fresh out of some training program ignores a lot, and hasn't been proven anywhere I've read. Many issues like pilot error, equipment, maintenance, regulation are all players in why planes crash. That pilot error comes from high timers and low. BTW, no US carrier has the best safety record in the world. We are good, but not the best.

Happy New Year

 

[Ty Webb]

Visceral:

Operating safely is a combination of knowlege, experinece, training, judgement and discipline. A pilot who has been flying in a 141 environment for five or six hundred hours in a piston single or twin has accumulated only a small amount of what is needed to be be a fully contributing crewmember.

While you are partially corrrect when you say that experience alone does not ensure safety, a lack of experience is a definite detriment to safety.

When you start operating transport-category equipment in an all-weather environment, you will realize that there is little margin for pilots who have so little experience that they haven't even gotten three or four winters under their belt yet.

In regards to your comments about our safety record- I think if you spend a little time doing the research, you'll find that the US operates over half of the world's scheduled departures, and has an accident rate that is extremely enviable. From time to time, there may be another carrier with a better accident rate, but UAL alone operates more flights a day than nearly all of Europe, and when the numbers play out, if we're not on the top of the heap, we're among the standard bearers.

PS., You seem to have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder, maybe it is just your youthful optimism, but whatever the reason, if you are going to make a career in this industry, you will be helping yourself to lose the attitude and to realize that you can learn a lot from the veterans of our industry.

 

[Spectre]

Let's face it. Airlines have to find alternative ways to fill their hiring needs. You can't source all of your pilots from the military or regionals. Forward looking airlines see this and are doing these types of arrangements with air universities. (This is all pre-Sept 11). There WAS a pilot shortage then. Airlines were competing for the best candidates. The Air Force offered me $250K to serve another 10 years. New military pilots must sign a 12 year commitment before they can get out. In the Clinton years, they closed 2 out of 6 pilot training bases. Now the Air Force doesn't have the capacity to train new pilots. Therefore, the military is not a dependable source of pilots for the majors as it used to be. On the other hand, regionals are growing, majors are shrinking. NWA, as do other majors, don't want to "steal" pilots from their commuters. At one time, the Avro jets were sitting idle because many of their captains were picked up by competing majors. NWA will still hire from their commuters, but as you can see, it's to their business advantage not to. Be real, intern programs such as this only hire a few people. It's not going to be their primary source for pilots. A good hiring program will hire a variety of people from a variety of backgrounds. However, given the current situation, no one's getting hired until the last furoughed pilot is back on the property.

 

[Visceral]

Ty Webb,

If discussing different views on an aviation subject is a chip on my shoulder, then well, you call it as you see it. I actually agree with your first 3 paragraphs. Your condescending remark about youthful optimism, however comes across sharply, since you have no idea how old I am or what I do. In addition, I HAVE done my research on Aviation safety...I have my Masters degree in it. What I said is still true. Its easy to get technical and say rates versus this or that, but as safe as we are, we are not the best. I think I'm done with this thread, since it seems differing views are vilified. Like I said, I'm not even involved in this program, I just hate to see one mindset pervade an entire industry.