NWA and DAL MECs dropped...

[~~~^~~~]

Longevity and equipment bump, or just ask your FO, they should be able to explain it once you unscrew them from the ceiling.

 

[DTW320]

Longevity and equipment bump, or just ask your FO, they should be able to explain it once you unscrew them from the ceiling.

Not gettin off that easy fins....who is going from $68 to $105 overnight? Be specific.

 

[NuGuy]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I do not see how you can look at what you hold today and say that is not a reality. To me it is much more surprising that a group of pilots will go from $68 to $105 overnight and be able to take your job.

Status quo is your ability to continue to fly, what you fly, in the same relative position & pay. This award completely fails that test. The fact that the MAJORITY of this airline is out of position for what their seniority will hold at SOC is a clear indication of that fact. At its core, this decision fails to abide by ALPA merger policy ( and of course it does not have to ).

We have different theories on how the Company will adjust to such a large rush to the schoolhouse if airplanes are moved.

There was a huge demographic difference between DAL and NWA new hires. NWA was not worth leaving a regional for unless you were very young and very mobile. Frankly for many Delta new hires, there are better opportunities elsewhere - they would be well advised to see what their experience an education can get them with other career opportunities.

The Delta MEC took the high road. It cost the Delta pilots, but made the overall Company stronger while preserving the union. ALPA did a fine job, Delta is a great Company, but no longer a first choice at a DC9B or A320 slot.

FedEx is getting 757's.

Heyas Fins,

The arbitrators sought a balance between NWA's older group with more attrition (which they accepted as fact) versus DAL's relatively younger group that had been displaced upward some years back.

With this situation, they could award an unlimited amount of attrition via a dynamic list or they could have front loaded the award with what seemed to them as a reasonable number. They chose the later.

They were, in essence, saying "hey NWA guys...you have a bunch of older pilots that will be gone in 5-10 years, so here's your chance to run with what we give you. DAL guys, it doesn't matter for you,
'cause you're younger and will be around longer". That's why there were no fences around the mid-sized widbodies.

Obviously some people get lost in the demographics. NWA has some older guys, that despite the slight upward shift, will never see the WB left seat they would have had pre-merger. And from what you're saying, you guys take the same kind of hit with a different section of the list.

You could do what ACL suggests, and wait it out if you have the time. But it is ridiculous to think of the 320 as a slave barge, and DTW is not a terrible place to commute to, or fly out of (no delays, good, inexpensive commuter hotels, etc).

It is what it is.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

Specifically, your furloughed pilots who got their longevity back (which I think they deserved) and now will be able to bid into widebody international flying.

Again, I don't begrudge them anything - good for them.

 

[DTW320]

Specifically, your furloughed pilots who got their longevity back (which I think they deserved) and now will be able to bid into widebody international flying.

Again, I don't begrudge them anything - good for them.

OK....now I'm with you.....I wasn't thinking of that situation. But I'm not sure I agree that NW guys in that group will be able to hold widebody Intl after SOC. How can you convince me of that?

 

[~~~^~~~]

NWA put out a good list that shows you what the pilots around you are holding. The pilots I'm referring to are middle lower in the pack of Delta 767 pilots.

Delta new hires hold the 767ER, some hold block with weekends off to Western Europe. Why do you think your pilots could not beat them in the bidding when the airplanes get moved around?

Delta pilots also tended to be folks who lived in Delta bases. Folks like me will do anything possible not to commute and with a side job that pays more than flying, commuting just is not an option. When these airplanes get moved around we anticipate the Delta pilots will try to stay in base, while the NWA pilots (who are more likely to be commuting anyway) will be more likely to chase the big airplanes. At least that is the theory that makes the most sense.

We will see once bidding actually starts.

 

[Kroll]

Specifically, your furloughed pilots who got their longevity back (which I think they deserved) and now will be able to bid into widebody international flying.

Again, I don't begrudge them anything - good for them.

Well this furloughed guy spent close to 6 years benched while many of the Delta 2007 hire are now senior to me (Who started their airline careers during the 2001 furloughs). I lost close to 700 numbers. Ask the first Delta guy hired in 2007 if he made out ok. He jumped ahead of 2000 NWA hires. I was to hold WB captain for years w/o the merger........I bet the best I will hold now will be 757 captain. I think the list sucks donkey balls. From my perspective guys in the bottom 9% of NWA got screwed. ( Can you hear the violin playing) Its over though. There is not a dam thing I can do about it.

So what I'm getting at is it sucks for a lot of us. Delta and NWA ppl...........some guys it worked out ok. It just depends on where you are on the list. This is what we want though......and now we can together make this a better place for all of us.

As far a bidding widebody.....some will do this but I think you may be surprized. There is a reason why your W/B flying is so junior.

K-Roll

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Double-post.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

You know what, I've tried articulate a point about three times now and have had to come back an delete it all due to the rambling. So... Suffice it to say...

Good luck to all of us.... the screwed (on both sides), the lucky (on both sides), and the largely indifferent (on both sides). My sixth sense says we're going to have far more important things than career expectations, relative seniority, and date of hire to worry about sooner than we would like. Here's hoping that we can all move forward like the professionals that we are from here on out.

Looking forward to working with all you pre-merger DAL guys (even General Lee, who I strongly suspect is the Delta pilot who is rumored to live up the street from me.... Bar's open at the brick Cape Cod with the white picket fence any time, dude...)

From here on out our failure to work together only puts us in peril, ladies and gents. Enough said.

 

[General Lee]

You know what, I've tried articulate a point about three times now and have had to come back an delete it all due to the rambling. So... Suffice it to say...

Good luck to all of us.... the screwed (on both sides), the lucky (on both sides), and the largely indifferent (on both sides). My sixth sense says we're going to have far more important things than career expectations, relative seniority, and date of hire to worry about sooner than we would like. Here's hoping that we can all move forward like the professionals that we are from here on out.

Looking forward to working with all you pre-merger DAL guys (even General Lee, who I strongly suspect is the Delta pilot who is rumored to live up the street from me.... Bar's open at the brick Cape Cod with the white picket fence any time, dude...)

From here on out our failure to work together only puts us in peril, ladies and gents. Enough said.

Hey, we are on the same side now, and I look forward to working with you guys too. Do you live in North ATL?

Bye Bye---General Lee