NTSB on sleeping Mesa pilots incident, pt 1

[Bringupthebird]

An undiagnosed medical condition doesn't explain intentional napping that he admitted to. It explains this unintentional nap, but it can't justify his naps that he took on purpose. I'm not condemning the guy for taking naps, since we've all been tired flying regional schedules, but admitting to it is just a bad idea. It makes us all look bad in the press, and it makes his case much more difficult when he tries to keep his certs and job.

Sleep apnea is medically disqualifying. He's probably out on permanent disability so he may not care about covering for inhumane scheduling anymore.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Why is this even in the Majors section?

 

[NuGuy]

Where do you get this at 4am? Do you bring a skillet/griddle, pancake mix, eggs and bacon with you?

Laugh all you want, but the railroaders have in their contracts that any hotel MUST have hot food available 24/7. MOT is such a place, so when we stayed there, we got to benefit from it.

Also, at 10 hours duty, the train stops...wherever it is.

If it matters, you make it happen...oh yea, they're under the RLA, too.

Nu

 

[kf4amu]

Laugh all you want, but the railroaders have in their contracts that any hotel MUST have hot food available 24/7. MOT is such a place, so when we stayed there, we got to benefit from it.

Also, at 10 hours duty, the train stops...wherever it is.

If it matters, you make it happen...oh yea, they're under the RLA, too.

Nu

Well I agree we should have that...but what airlines do?

 

[AirportBum]

My wife told me that this could be prevented by wearing a jockstrap.

Evidently, female research shows that men snore when their balls cover their a$shole and vapor lock ensues.

This is my vote for FI funniest post of 2009 so far. I'm still laughing out loud.

I only wish I had this explanation of vapor lock when I was flight instructing. :laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

Mesa schedules are not just about the day's schedule- or even the weeks. It's more about the month and the year- and really the years piled onto one another- they don't get the time off. Many times less than 10 days a month.

The reversing of your sleep schedule is the most damaging aspect of an airline schedule. I've had 27 hour layovers where you get to the hotel at 1am and end up with a 4 am wakeup call- how do you handle that? Much less scheduled reduced rest, 5 day trips,etc. THERE IS A CUMULATIVE AFFECT.
You can fly these schedules for a short period, but they catch up with you eventually- especially when a company constantly screws with you like mesa does. Schedule changes. Pilot intimidation. Weak union inundated with grievances they'll never have the $$ or time to deal with.
Mesa needs to go away- along with every other airline that operates like this. They take advantage of our professionalism and responsibility.

 

[densoo]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123111541032752579.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Continental Airlines Inc. and AMR Corp.'s American Airlines have filed a joint lawsuit opposing enhanced crew-rest and other safety requirements imposed by U.S. regulators on the longest international flights.
The litigation highlights the difficulties the Federal Aviation Administration faces in devising measures to combat pilot fatigue, particularly on nonstop runs lasting 16 hours or longer. As airlines seek greater productivity from flight crews across the board, tired and sleepy pilots are considered one of the major safety issues confronting U.S. commercial aviation.

 

[densoo]

Continental Airlines Inc. and AMR Corp.'s American Airlines have filed a joint lawsuit opposing enhanced crew-rest and other safety requirements imposed by U.S. regulators on the longest international flights.
The litigation highlights the difficulties the Federal Aviation Administration faces in devising measures to combat pilot fatigue, particularly on nonstop runs lasting 16 hours or longer. As airlines seek greater productivity from flight crews across the board, tired and sleepy pilots are considered one of the major safety issues confronting U.S. commercial aviation.

the suit asks for a review of "new and different regulatory requirements" which entail "substantial burdens and costs" on carriers.

Just like secure cockpit doors had "substantial burdens and costs" before 2001.

What is ultimate cost in having exhausted crews?

 

[EWR_FO]

Just like secure cockpit doors had "substantial burdens and costs" before 2001.

What is ultimate cost in having exhausted crews?

The proposed change will lead to more fatigue, not less. These trips, right now, are all about sleep management. If you can stay relatively close to your "own" time zone, they are far less demanding than two-man domestic flying. This rule change will make it much more difficult for all four guys to stay on their "own" time. This is just another example of the FAA legislating something they know absolutely nothing about.

The long haul rules don't need change, the domestic short haul rules do.

 

[zawillif]

It sounds like if they had only contacted ALPA first, then immediately called the chief pilot and admitted the mistake they might still have jobs.

 

[machaf]

.

Not to go out quietly...good old Emir pissed all over his Mesa Dorm room. I'm not sure how much curry you need to eat to make your piss smell like that! I still remember Larry Risley running up the hallway screaming some obscenity. It was the funniest thing I can remember.

LMFAO!

 

[Browntothebone]

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuGuy
Laugh all you want, but the railroaders have in their contracts that any hotel MUST have hot food available 24/7. MOT is such a place, so when we stayed there, we got to benefit from it.

Also, at 10 hours duty, the train stops...wherever it is.

If it matters, you make it happen...oh yea, they're under the RLA, too.

Nu

Well I agree we should have that...but what airlines do?

UPS has it in their contract. Plus all their long flights and short flights with an early show are catered.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Where do you get this at 4am? Do you bring a skillet/griddle, pancake mix, eggs and bacon with you?

never mind

 

[CKJET]

Mesa schedules are not just about the day's schedule- or even the weeks. It's more about the month and the year- and really the years piled onto one another- they don't get the time off. Many times less than 10 days a month.

The reversing of your sleep schedule is the most damaging aspect of an airline schedule. I've had 27 hour layovers where you get to the hotel at 1am and end up with a 4 am wakeup call- how do you handle that? Much less scheduled reduced rest, 5 day trips,etc. THERE IS A CUMULATIVE AFFECT.
You can fly these schedules for a short period, but they catch up with you eventually- especially when a company constantly screws with you like mesa does. Schedule changes. Pilot intimidation. Weak union inundated with grievances they'll never have the $$ or time to deal with.
Mesa needs to go away- along with every other airline that operates like this. They take advantage of our professionalism and responsibility.

This is not just Mesa... this is everywhere the names and times change but the results are still the same. I because of my great luck have been forced to commute to ANC from NJ, often will work 2-3 days flying all night normally say 21:00-09:00 by the time get to the hotel. Then have a 10:00AM check in the next day. Unless we all just call in sick one day the only way it will change is if someone puts a passenger plane into the ground because of it. It is sad but true.

However I don't think "napping" is a solution. A six pack of red bull along with some potato chips can normally get through the switching of schedules. Just my two cents.

 

[waveflyer]

it IS an issue for all pilots- you're an idiot if you don't think this affects us all.
1st- stop giving your flying away to these carriers.
2nd- scheds at the bk majors aren't all that different.

"6-pack of red bull and potato chips"

like i said-= you can do that for a while- but it's like fast food- won't kill you today- but it'll kill you eventually- or if youre lucky- end your career and give you a wake up call first

 

[CKJET]

it IS an issue for all pilots- you're an idiot if you don't think this affects us all.
1st- stop giving your flying away to these carriers.
2nd- scheds at the bk majors aren't all that different.

"6-pack of red bull and potato chips"

like i said-= you can do that for a while- but it's like fast food- won't kill you today- but it'll kill you eventually- or if youre lucky- end your career and give you a wake up call first

I'm not sure if you are insulting me or you agree with me so I'll just move on with life and try to get some sleep.

 

[LarryinTN]

Sleep apnea is medically disqualifying. He's probably out on permanent disability

No, it's not. I know several pilots who have special issuance for severe sleep apnea. They were out about two months from diagnosis to return to duty.

 

[waveflyer]

no- not insulting you, the person, but i am insulting the red bull and chips comment- you offer no solution except some monster walk out you know will never happen= then give off some defeated fatalistic rhetoric.
I definitely and always insult that. you have way more control than that- we all do.
oh- and i was insulting EVERY major airline pilot that ever voted to outsource flying.

 

[glasspilot1]

What I am curious about is that the FO has a G-1159 type rating. Where'd he get it and why is he at Mesa with that type?

He went to Mesa for the raise?

 

[bigshooter107]

After failing the test, they fired him. Not to go out quietly...good old Emir pissed all over his Mesa Dorm room. I'm not sure how much curry you need to eat to make your piss smell like that! I still remember Larry Risley running up the hallway screaming some obscenity. It was the funniest thing I can remember.[/quote]

Simply classic. My morning is now complete.
By the way four pages and Im the first to report
Mesa Sucks!