NTSB live webcast of 3407 sunshine hearing

[WayBack]

It probably depends more on what airline you are talking about rather than if it was ALPA, IBT, or any other union. I know that at XJT our contract requires there to be a training review board to look at all the circumstance. Things that the FAA was asking airlines to do. Everyone is afforded due process because of the contract and that is it.

I didn't make my point clear enough. ALPA or no ALPA, this guy didn't lose his job. It's not all evil management that fires employees for failing a checkride, or messing up on line.
I have worked for a non-union airline before. Management treated us great. They went beyond what any union could have done for it's pilot group.
ALPA isn't the saving grace you ALPA thumpers would like to believe it is.

I don't know. I know that ALPA will push to make them happen though.

Let's get real here. ALPA has been "pushing" for flight and duty times since the beginning of time. What have they achieved? Absolutely nothing.
Sure, you guys have these neat little conventions all over the places where you're discussing the issues. But the only thing that gets done is a couple of rounds of golf, some blackjack and fishing. I've seen pictures.
The only reason that flight time is on the table right now, is because congress kicked it off after Colgan 3407. Not because of ALPA.

Not that it matters but just curious, can you cite a reference to this? There have been scores of ALPA pilot groups throughout the last 70+ years so I'm kind of skeptical.

Just talk to Rez and PFT_128. They will explain to you that ALPA saves the world and everyones jobs. Just look at the long list of those ALPA pilot groups, a lot of them are collecting unemployment right now.

 

[Nevets]

I didn't make my point clear enough. ALPA or no ALPA, this guy didn't lose his job. It's not all evil management that fires employees for failing a checkride, or messing up on line.
I have worked for a non-union airline before. Management treated us great. They went beyond what any union could have done for it's pilot group.
ALPA isn't the saving grace you ALPA thumpers would like to believe it is.

You said that "there is a time that the company and union have to recognize the problem and do away with it." My point is that with a contract, it is clearly spelled out how to deal with it, even if it means termination. Even ALPA cannot stop a training termination. All they can ask the arbitrator to do is to make sure the process negotiated into the contract was followed. I didn't say anything about evil management.

ALPA isn't the evil you ALPA haters have the impression it is.

Let's get real here. ALPA has been "pushing" for flight and duty times since the beginning of time. What have they achieved? Absolutely nothing.
Sure, you guys have these neat little conventions all over the places where you're discussing the issues. But the only thing that gets done is a couple of rounds of golf, some blackjack and fishing. I've seen pictures.
The only reason that flight time is on the table right now, is because congress kicked it off after Colgan 3407. Not because of ALPA.

ALPA only can push as much as leverage lets them push. This accident has proven to be enough leverage for ALPA to push this issue again. And its ALPA helping to shape the regulation now that its on the forefront again.

Just talk to Rez and PFT_128. They will explain to you that ALPA saves the world and everyones jobs. Just look at the long list of those ALPA pilot groups, a lot of them are collecting unemployment right now.

There is a long list of non ALPA and other union groups collecting unemployment. Pilots dont run these airlines you know. If they did, all of them would be collecting unemployment.:laugh: