NTSB Hearing

[kmox29]

Got on the web cast a little late. Has any factual information about the operation of the Pinnacle flight been brought up? Or has is been only the questioning of CRJ exec's?

 

[PCL_128]

Check out the PDF slide show of the opening remarks. There's some info in there.

 

[kmox29]

Thanks.

 

[kmox29]

So, as I thought, the rumor of those guys doing a couple of barrel rolls was a bunch of crap.

 

[PCL_128]

So, as I thought, the rumor of those guys doing a couple of barrel rolls was a bunch of crap.

Correct. I never even heard those rumors. They did get the plane in some weird bank and pitch angles though according to the DFDR data. I think it was something like 85 degrees of bank and +/- 30 degrees of pitch at times after the stall happened. That might be where the rumors got started.

 

[TonyC]

So, as I thought, the rumor of those guys doing a couple of barrel rolls was a bunch of crap.

I believe a barrel roll would have been safer than what they actually did do.


Swapping seats?!?!?


DUDE!








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[English]

Anyone have a linky?

 

[PCL_128]

Swapping seats?!?!?

Not only that, but they swapped back in the middle of the emergency going through 10k feet.

 

[TonyC]

Anyone have a linky?

This'll get you there:

NTSB Schedule

They're taking a lunch break right now.










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[TonyC]

Not only that, but they swapped back in the middle of the emergency going through 10k feet.

Absolutely amazing.






Profoundly sad.






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[olympus593]

Absolutely amazing.


It's not that much harder to fly from the other seat.

 

[kmox29]

Is there a transcript of the CVR somewhere?

 

[TonyC]

Absolutely amazing.

It's not that much harder to fly from the other seat.

Who do you suppose was flying the jet while they were swapping seats, genius?


And what do you think was their priority when they were diving through 10,000 feet with no engines operating and they decided to swap seats again?


Did your parents have any intelligent children?


Good grief.






.

 

[TonyC]

Is there a transcript of the CVR somewhere?

Cockpit Voice Recorder 12 - Factual Report of Group Chairman


Exhibit Items from the Public Docket


Details

 

[TonyC]

I mentioned this on the Inappropriate comments about RJ crash? thread...

I read the CVR transcript as I was listening to the hearing over the webcast. I thought I was going to throw up if I read one more "Dude."

20 minutes from initial stickshaker to impact, and the final word was.... Dude.












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[Inconceivable]

Great quotes:

"is that seal on the liquor cabinet?"

"(expletive) (sound of laughing) this is the greatest thing no way. (sound of laughing"

3min37s after flameout at 410 "you know what. yeah we need to go on oxygen"

"okay you with me on this? you clear? you clear? all right we're gonna get this going. don't worry bro. alright? you okay? seriously? alright."

------
Captain 6900 hours, six disapprovals
typed in aircraft two months prior

F/O 761 hours, one disapproval
initial qualification 3.5 months prior
-------

The crew was what it was.
When will we hold accountable the management that allows flight operations like this to be conducted? This did not occur in a vacuum. By God's grace there were not any pax aboard.

Can you imagine if there were?

 

[chperplt]

One of the many things I found odd in the transcript were their repeated queries if they were maintaining altitude. It doesn't seem like they ever truly realized they lost both engines.

Remember a while back when someone posted a sim video where they shut down the wrong engine... I think it was one of those be a pilot for an hour type things.. I got the feeling I was reading the transcript from day 1 of FTD training...

 

[satpak77]

21:56:33 - "Double engine failure....you holding altitude?"

two dead MORONS

prob Kit Darby proteges

 

[Inconceivable]

The F/O was one day short of the 23 month anniversary of his PRIVATE PILOT certificate.

On the plus side 29% of his total time was in the CRJ

 

[olympus593]

Who do you suppose was flying the jet while they were swapping seats, genius?


And what do you think was their priority when they were diving through 10,000 feet with no engines operating and they decided to swap seats again?


Did your parents have any intelligent children?

I read the CVR report and must have miss the par when they switch seat going thru 10000 Feet, My bad.

My dad had you did he? And no you don't seem very intelligent!!!
Your avatar look like you,
Love you brother.

 

[TonyC]

NTSB: "So, do you think someone who is not a Check Airman would be just as effective with the two engine inoperative checklist? Do you think someone who is just a Captain, given the failure of all the instruments on the right side, would be effective in the right seat?"





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[Inconceivable]

Hey I can see Aaron on the webcam! He looks p!ssed--especially when Tommy said that they were "always able to keep up with" their 700% expansion in four years.

Tommy really isn't too impressive--"we teach the profile", "he wouldn't be held to captain's standards", "we don't do high altitude stalls, we increase the turulence in the sim", "we rely on pilot judgement". He kind of looks like a knob.

 

[satpak77]

yeah I always practice stalls at the max service ceiling of all the airplanes I fly, and since that is not dangerous enough, I do it at night.


Night IMC is preferred however


can anyone confirm if these guys were in those "Get your Airline Career Started" ads in Flying, with some kid with an airline hat and stripes on, smiling, as he posed next to his RJ?

I think the FAA should require "Common Sense 101" course at all 141 schools

 

[Simon Says]

After reading the transcript....I am sick to my stomach.

I feel like I want to cry. It is almost as bad as the skywest guy telling ATC that the Alaska plane is now inverted. Then 5 seconds later he states that it hit the water.

Very moving.

 

[Popeye0537]

I loved this one "how would one know that the had lost both engines at FL410.....answer from Tommy "Well they would be slowing down".....

 

[h25b]

I think this might be one of the most disturbing things I have read in my life. May they rest in peace.

I really couldn't even start to imagine where to even begin to lay blame.

One thing's for sure, if this had been an aircraft loaded with 50 paying passengers I think you'd be seeing a lot of things changing overnight.

 

[satpak77]

I want to go to Gulfstream Academy

http://www.orangeleader.com/articles/2004/10/20/news/news1.txt

The plane landed to the right of one house, to the left of another and across the street from an apartment complex that was untouched by the crash.

Nearby residents were amazed at how the plane was able to miss the houses, damaging only a garage on its final plunge to the earth.

Peter Cesarz's friends and teachers say they are certain the man they knew as a teen-ager had something to do with the lives that were saved that day when the plane somehow avoided hitting those houses as it fell.

It was just in his character to do something like that, they said.

Obviously due to their Tex Johnston/Chuck Yeager seasoned aviation flying skills....one meter left or right and houses and babies in cribs would have been wiped out in an inferno

Cesarz went to Lamar University when he graduated from Orangefield High and then to Texas State Technical Institute to study engineering.

Friends said he decided right away that engineering was simply not for him, so with a little help from his family and a lot of hard work he enrolled in flight school with Gulfstream Airlines and became a first officer with Pinnacle Airlines to fulfill his lifelong dream.

"He was just born to fly," Sanders said.

I wonder if Daddy was gonna pay for his 737 type also, plus "a lot of hard work"

 

[TonyC]

I really couldn't even start to imagine where to even begin to lay blame.

Bombardier... General Electric... Embry-Riddle... Gulfstream Academy... Pinnacle... the Captain... the FO... the FAA... FlightSafety...

I'm sure there will be fingers pointed in lots of directions, but there appears to be plenty of blame to share.


How about the very system that put them there that night?


Stupid to put themselves there in the first place - - what part of their experience taught them differently? Too stupid to get themselves out - - who allowed two pilots of such relatively low experience to find themselves there?


Truly sad, and we should all be ashamed.





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[Workin'Stiff]

Wow... Downloading all FDR's off of Part 91 ops and informing pilots that they will be monitored during these ops.... Amazing...

 

[check6]

WOW!! The newspaper article makes me sick. The FO was everybody's son blah blah blah. . . .

The transcript is interesting to me because they declare an emergency w/o hardly even telling the controller what is going on. At one point, the controller "confirmed" that they had a single engine failure. ATC didn't even know the full situation until the handoff!!!! Somethin' else that bothered me is the lack of CRM. It sounds to be like there was a lot of shuffling of papers and the captain was freaking out while the FO was flying the plane. It's good someone was flying, but come on. . . communicate more!!!

I don't think this accident is anything like Alaska 261. The difference between the pilots in the Alaska accident is they didn't deserve what they got. The Pinnacle accident was "stupid induced." Inexperience is the big thing here . . .