Not Paying Union Dues

[Rez O. Lewshun]

First of all, get your facts straight. 21 days off a year!!! Are you that stupid?? Second, I volunteered and it was a joke. Guys are in the union so they do not have to actually work the contract they fight for. In 18 years what has DW actually done. I have some old time USAIR pilots that would like to talk to him. I have some United and Northwest friends also that think ALPO is sh!t. He has the responsibility of looking out for 66,000 pilot jobs.

Prater will average the about same number of days off.... If your old time friends want to talk I am sure they can call themselves. In fact many pilots "call" their MEC and National Officers to complain that thier expectations are not being met, despite unprecedented circumstances, beyond ALPA control. So instead of dealing with the issues, these ALPA reps have to "school" the misinformed: a waste of time and resources.

Imagine having to go to the cabin for each flight delay and explain to angry cynical passengers instead of working the issue.

That number use to be 100,000!!! He has done a wonderful job!!

Unions don't hire or terminate employment. What are you trying to say...

ALPO is made of volunteers!?! Are you sure??? They get something for their work, noone in this business does it for free. Why should he get more than a line pilot??? Because he negotiates crap contracts?!? He should get paid what he fights for. If he thinks a RJ Captain is worth 50,000 a year, then that is what he should earn. PM me idiot, and I could school you on ALPO and the Airline industry. Pilots were around along time before ALPO!!!!

I know when I volunteered, I'd fly my line FRI-MON. The MEC meeting would be on TUES-THURS. No day off. In addition, on that TUES-THURS I put in 10 hour days. 10h/day times my hourly rate was a few hundred clams. And I flew an RJ. If that was a B777 or B747 it would be thousands of dollars worth of volunteer time.

I did control my cell phone calls. I wouldn't answer during meal times or dedicated family time. But I did return all calls within 24hours as a matter of personal policy. Members do demand communication, especially when they don't realize you are flying a full flight schedule, living a life similiar to thiers as oppsossed sitting in plush union chairs in high dollar offices eating cake off of silver platters.

If the President thinks a RJ CA should make 50K, and he also thinks a B777 CA should make 300K and he can hold B777 CA then why should he make 50k?

Here is a major problem: As long as we have members that are so pissed off at the very people that are trying to protect them we will seriously deminish our effectiveness.

If you have been paying attention to ALPA affairs windows of opportunity are presenting themselves. But if ALPA reps have to spend time justifying what they are doing instead of doing it when are going to miss that window.

When ALPA reps call out to the members to take action and the members decline then we will not be taken seriously by gov't, companies and industry.

Get informed, get involved. Being an angry spectator all while watching your career be played out is not effective. Be a player....

 

[CopilotDoug]

"...In fact many pilots "call" their MEC and National Officers to complain that thier expectations are not being met, despite unprecedented circumstances, beyond ALPA control..."
I'd say the three biggest concerns are Pay, Job Security, and Retirement. If ALPA can't control those, why should anyone pay dues?

"...Unions don't hire or terminate employment..."
And in many cases, ALPA can't protect your employment either.

"...If you have been paying attention to ALPA affairs windows of opportunity are presenting themselves..."
Duane has been saying this since 2001. "We've got management by the balls, the tables are about to turn! Just you wait and see! Never mind the Trainwreck that has happened at DAL/UAL/NWA and TWA."

Alot of Union members are pissed because they DID have expecatations of ALPA. DAL and UAL and NWA have highlighted the fact that ALPA really has alot less power than they'd like their membership to believe. And now people are asking "If my retirement and career is at risk and ALPA can do absolutely nothing about it, why the hell am I paying Union dues?!?" ALPA is just one more hand in the cookie jar.

Just like corporate America, Duane will be protected and well taken care of since he's at the top. I'm sure the founding fathers of ALPA would look on the current "administration" with disgust and contempt.

 

[BoilerUP]

Doug, its painfully obvious you either don't know anything about ALPA or are unwilling to learn how it works. Have you ever read "Flying the Line" or "Hard Landing"?

ALPA is not a savior. ALPA National cannot prevent a pilot group from controlling its destiny by voting in concessions outside of refusing to sign, and if they did that, there would probably be a decertification drive started immedately.

ALPA members that constantly bitch and complain about ALPA constantly fail to realize that 1. most of their expectations of ALPA's 'power' are completely unrealisitc, and 2. they are ALPA! If the masses creating the cacophony of whining on this board would put half that effort into activism or volunteering, there might be real change...but ultimately its easier to blame an organization instead of the person staring back in the mirror.

ALPA has not cost pilots their pensions and their contracts; the worst terrorist attack in US history combined with inept management giving away seats in a weak revenue environment has caused that. If you cannot wrap your mind around that fact then I'd love to hear your theory.

In order to reclaim even some of those huge givebacks, ALPA members will have to show huge courage and be willing to fight a hard fight. It is my sincere hope each and every ALPA member will rally together and unify in each and every pilot group and we as a collective can turn the corner. My airline is years away from negotiations, but until then I'll say HELL NO to any concessions talk and show my support for every single group working to improve conditions for themselves and us all.

Are you?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

"...In fact many pilots "call" their MEC and National Officers to complain that thier expectations are not being met, despite unprecedented circumstances, beyond ALPA control..."
I'd say the three biggest concerns are Pay, Job Security, and Retirement. If ALPA can't control those, why should anyone pay dues?

Depends on what you call control. Air Line Pilots do not run airlines. Did you call ALPA when you wanted a job? No, you called your employer.

"...Unions don't hire or terminate employment..."
And in many cases, ALPA can't protect your employment either.

Depends on how stupid the pilot is and how determined your employer is.

"...If you have been paying attention to ALPA affairs windows of opportunity are presenting themselves..."
Duane has been saying this since 2001. "We've got management by the balls, the tables are about to turn! Just you wait and see! Never mind the Trainwreck that has happened at DAL/UAL/NWA and TWA."

can you provide a reference?

Alot of Union members are pissed because they DID have expecatations of ALPA. DAL and UAL and NWA have highlighted the fact that ALPA really has alot less power than they'd like their membership to believe. And now people are asking "If my retirement and career is at risk and ALPA can do absolutely nothing about it, why the hell am I paying Union dues?!?" ALPA is just one more hand in the cookie jar.

Wrong again. Recall that the pilots of DAL, UAL and NWA told "ALPA" through democratic votes of free will that they were willing to take the concessionary contracts. Thus in the future they would get gains. IOW live to fight another day. Sorry, its not ALPA but your fellow pilots. Start your mantra in the crew room not at ALPA National or your MEC.

Just like corporate America, Duane will be protected and well taken care of since he's at the top. I'm sure the founding fathers of ALPA would look on the current "administration" with disgust and contempt.

That is pretty presumptuous that you think you can speak for the Key Men of ALPA. It weakens your creditiability, significantly. I am willing to bet you don't even know who the founding fathers were. And I am willing to bet that the current ALPA National leadership is in line with founding father ideals. And the membership hasn't changed all that much.....

 

[CopilotDoug]

Why does ALPA need the dues again? I thought it was all volunteers?
What kind of assurances do ALPA members have that their Pay, Job Security, and Retirement are Secure? That's what I, John Q. Pilot, am concerned about.

The question still stands..."If my retirement and career is at risk regradless, and ALPA can do absolutely nothing about it, why should ALPA get one dime?!?"

My company signs my paychecks, not ALPA. I work for the company, not ALPA. I can appreciate your interest in aviation history, Rez. But as I said before, when Behncke and the 24 Key Men (whose names where held in secrecy to protect their jobs) formed ALPA in 1931 TIMES WERE DIFFERENT! Get it through your head that we're not flying BiPlanes on Mail Routes in the 30's anymore!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why does ALPA need the dues again? I thought it was all volunteers?
What kind of assurances do ALPA members have that their Pay, Job Security, and Retirement are Secure? That's what I, John Q. Pilot, am concerned about.

Unions use volunteers so dues are not 5%. You have more assurances than with no union.

The question still stands..."If my retirement and career is at risk regradless, and ALPA can do absolutely nothing about it, why should ALPA get one dime?!?"

Ever wonder what the pay, retirement and career would be during these last five years of cencesions if tere was no negotiation?

My company signs my paychecks, not ALPA. I work for the company, not ALPA. I can appreciate your interest in aviation history, Rez. But as I said before, when Behncke and the 24 Key Men (whose names where held in secrecy to protect their jobs) formed ALPA in 1931 TIMES WERE DIFFERENT! Get it through your head that we're not flying BiPlanes on Mail Routes in the 30's anymore!!!

Your company pays your pay check but unions negotiate the amount.

Times were different, but the issues are very much the same.

Pay
Pilot Pushing
Right to Strike
Work Rules
PIC Authority
Hijacking/Terrorism


Representation is a cornerstone entity in American History and Culture.

You think ALPA or unions are irrelevent. Yet they still exist. And here you are........

 

[XJohXJ]

Unfortunately, and it is NOT ALPA's fault, we have lost the right to strike. Without the right to strike, and the willingness to fight for it (i.e.: striking regardless of politically imposed legalities) the union has no power whatsoever.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Unfortunately, and it is NOT ALPA's fault, we have lost the right to strike. Without the right to strike, and the willingness to fight for it (i.e.: striking regardless of politically imposed legalities) the union has no power whatsoever.

The illegal strikes of PATCO, TWU 100 and the APA "job action" have made it even more difficult for intrested parties to "accept the right to strike" with unions....

 

[PCL_128]

The illegal strikes of PATCO, TWU 100 and the APA have made it even more difficult for intrested parties to "accept the right to strike" with unions....

Rez, what exactly do you expect workers like the PATCO controllers and the TWU 100 to do? Legally, they can never strike. As bad as it is for us, at least there is a legal means for us to strike eventually. For the workers of unions like PATCO, they have no such remedy. Are they supposed to simply sit back and take it? Sorry, but I can't criticize the actions of these workers. They did what they felt they had to do.

 

[CopilotDoug]

...we have lost the right to strike. Without the right to strike, and the willingness to fight for it (i.e.: striking regardless of politically imposed legalities) the union has no power whatsoever.

Agreed