Non-tech pilot slots coming to an end?

[NookyBooky]

Some reasons to be happy about not being at the Acadamy:

1. No matter what school you go to, odds are it will have a hell of a lot more girls then the acadamy.

2. In the Navy (if you entertain the thought of joining the navy instead), you get to get shot of the front of a boat, brag about your carrier landing skills, and be happy you went to a college with girls, all while you sit on a boat with thousands of dudes.

3. Flight attendents, female ones of course (if you want to do the airline thing).

4. Girls, sex, parties, girls, sex, girls, parties, girls, sex, parties, etc. You get the picture?


On a serious note, make the best of what you got. If you want to be an AF pilot, go for it. F#*k those who say you can't, find out for yourself. But try to enjoy what life has dealt you or else all the good things will pass you by before you know it.

 

[skiddriver]

To all of you who don't think I can make it, I hope to prove you wrong in a couple of years.

Leo R.

I hope so too. I think you're receiving some honest unvarnished opinions here, and I'm sorry if they're disheartening. Buuut...

You're paddling upstream now because of your decision to leave the academy. Yes, you can overcome that, but you have to look at it this way. When the board is selecting folks for a pilot slot, they're going to look at that decision first. It may not knock you out of the running completely, but when they see your non-tech degree on top of that, it's going to greatly reduce your chances.

If you really want to be an AF pilot, you need to give them what they want. First and foremost, they want an Acad grad. Okay, you can't give them that now. Next, they want a tech grad, with great grades and super participation in AFROTC. You can give them that. Don't stack the deck against yourself.

Finally, as to your question

Originally posted by Leo R.
Do you really think the board would hold me accountable for a decision I made right out of high school

Yes, absolutely. The military does it all the time. Kids do things without thinking that forever disqualify them from getting commissioned, or reduce their chances of getting a pilot slot. Simple things like getting a tatoo on their neck, or a drunk driving conviction. Spending the night in jail for shoplifting or getting in a fight at the wrong place/wrong time. It's all part of the package and there are enough folks who can keep their nose clean knocking at the door to make it a waste of time for the military to try and give second chances to those who don't.

Something to keep keep in mind.

Skiddriver
USNA '80

OBTW, the Navy and Marine Corps are probably not going down the tech degree road just yet. If you are definitely not interested in a tech degree, at least talk to the officer selection officers for those services and see how it looks getting a pilot slot there. I'll warn you that those slots are getting very hard to get, most of our pilots end up in helos, and in particular, Marine Corps training makes USAFA hazing pale in comparison.

 

[mudkow60]

Hey, Leo-

I left the Naval Academy to go to a Pac 10 school, where I partied my ass off, got good grades, and had a really great time in college. Oh, and I got a pilot slot thru ROTC.

Tell all the negative a-holes to take a hike. I have nothing but respect for all my academy grad buddies, but everyone who says it is the only sure way to get a pilot slot is an elitist.

Good luck with your pursuit for the covetted lead wings.

 

[skiddriver]

Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I take that back. Party your toukas off, demand that the board take you "just the way you are", major in Modern French Poetry. You're guaranteed a slot.

Oh, and be sure and disregard any advice that might interfere with you doing exactly what you feel like at any given moment. You'll not only be guaranteed a pilot slot, you'll also get that AFTPS class you wanted, with the obligatory astronaut follow-on.

 

[RShebib]

Leo,

Seems like you're taking a pretty good hit about leaving the academy, but let me give you a different perspective. First of all, the academy is not for everyone. While it is an outstanding academic institution and a great way to get a pilot slot, it is by no means the ONLY way to get one and by no means significantly decreases your chances.

I have a bunch of friends who went to the AFA and I'd say that half of them wished they never went. If all you get out of the 4 years in college is a degree, you've wasted your time. It should be the best 4 years of your life and I promise if you stayed at the academy vs going to a civilian university, your experience would have been MUCH different.

ROTC has many slots where you can compete for pilot training. If you don't make it Sheppard, there are plenty of chances to get to one of the other bases. The only real difference is you have a better chance of getting a fighter out of Sheppard, but you said you didn't care what you flew, so that shouldn't matter.

As far as answering questions as to why you left the academy. Like I said earlier, you can just say that place wasn't for you at this particular time in your life. You know your desire to fly in the US Air Force is what you want to do, but that the academy was not the place for you to get your education. You will not be looked down on....your fellow ROTC cadets are not happy because a zoomie failed.....sounds like you're getting a lot of responses from zoomies here who can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to go to that "institution" (remember, they call it the zoo for a reason), or from people who have little to no idea about what they're talking about....

Best of luck and enjoy you college years and ROTC experience....I believe that's the best way to spend your 4 years getting a degree!!!!

 

[Korgs130]

First, I'd like to say that personally, I wouldn't trade my time at USAFA for anything. If you don't like the kind of BS that you saw at the Academy, just wait until you see some of the BS that you go though when you deploy to a forward operating location in a combat zone (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq etc). Flying in the military is awesome, but it is also filled with personal sacrifices. One of those sacrifices is putting up with a lot of BS.

You made a choice that may have a negitive impact on your goal. I don't think that this the end of the world. Keep working hard and stay focused. There are plenty of non Academy guys who are excellent pilots. Don't let anyone tell you that can't do it. Also, look into applying for a ANG or AFR pilot slot.

As far as you original question...the type of degree doesn't matter. My advice is to choose something at interests you (I choose History). If you're interested in the subject, you'll enjoy you're what your doing and you'll do well. I'm not saying to get an "easy" degree. Challenge yourself, but do it in something you enjoy. The important thing is that you build good study habits, a skill you'll need in UPT. Good luck!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I'm the first one here to tell you not to let any of the clowns on this board tell you there's anything you can't do. The point isn't whether the Acadamy is good or bad or whether there is more pu$$y to be had at a university. That's all true. In fact, I'd recommend people go the non-academy route overall. But once you've been given a foot in the door-no matter which door-to meeting your goal, you are a moron if you quit the process mid-stream. Mudkow might have found a way to sit in a hover on planeguard after quitting the academy, but he's the reason I tell people to never let anyone tell you there's something you can't do. Some folks can overcome STUPID decisions on the road to wings. Most can't. Good luck....you'll need it...that and a lot of hard work.

PS you might consider the Navy, Marines or Coast Guard, as those folks would glady consider the record of a person who "came to their senses" and realized the Air Force wasn't for them. Just a thought.

 

[JJG]

Leo,
Why don't you consider majoring in aviation? An aviation major would provide a fall back carreer as a civilian pilot plus you would get college credit to fly. A second degree possibility that is science and aviation related is a degree in meterology.

Here is my two cents? It seems you are like a path of least resistance kind of person right now. "I hated the Air Force Academy, it was too much commitment" "I don't really like ROTC" "What's the easiest major I can have and still get a pilot slot" While others are bashing you, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and figure you are young, and don't understand how dedication and commitment often equals success. You had the best opportunity in the world with the AFA. You don't seem to understand that four years would have went by in the blink of an eye, but you will probably understand that when you get older.

I strongly suggest you take some flight training. Many folks say they want to be jet pilots, but then they find out they don't have the love of flying or the drive and determination to complete private pilot training in a Cessna 150. Find out if you have that drive right now, before the military sends you to fly school and you find out you hate flying and DOR. Plus any flight training you receive will not hurt your pilot application for ROTC.

Here is another suggestion, want a pilot slot right away?, in a program that does not care what kind of degree you have?, and with no ROTC stuff during the school year? Look into the Marine PLC program. Just two six week sessions in sunny Quantico, VA during the summer. A college buddy of mine was exactly in the same sitiuation you were in except he left the Air Force Academy because of low grades. He transferred to a regular university, entered the Marine Corps PLC program and last I heard five years ago was flying F-18's for the Marine Corps. The Marine D.I.'s in the PLC program will really test if you have the drive and determination to become a military pilot.

Final thoughts: Military flight school is more demanding than any OCS program or the Air Force Academy. You will receive about four years of college classes in seven months. You will have 0500 ramps followed by classes until 1700, then its home to study all night and start the process all over again the next day. IP's will "haze" you and embarass you in front of your peers. It gets even worse when you go to your aircraft transition. Now you will have to learn pages and pages of complex systems, operations and emergencey procedures in a few months. All this pales in comparsion to your first operational unit where you will be expected to keep up on your flying and perform a myriad of squadron duties. BTW you may be living in a tent, getting shot at, flying at night in the worst weather imaginable, and having the pressure of aerial refueling and dropping bombs on the bad guys and not your own troops. Start thinking about this kind of commitment and challange yourself to be the best.

 

[mudkow60]

Hugh...

You think turning circles in the sky for 8 to 12 hours is fun, you can keep it.

And by the way, you should change you name to huge ass, because you seem like a real tool. I would love to meet you in person, and we can see how big of a member you really are.

You know where you can find me clown- as you have responded to many of my previous posts, including the one about the air show coming up in P-cola. Bring it on, pal!

 

[HoursHore]

[ Look into the Marine PLC program. [/B]

If this guy can't hack the AFA, no way He'll hack Marine OCS.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Hugh...

You think turning circles in the sky for 8 to 12 hours is fun, you can keep it.

And by the way, you should change you name to huge ass, because you seem like a real tool. I would love to meet you in person, and we can see how big of a member you really are.

You know where you can find me clown- as you have responded to many of my previous posts, including the one about the air show coming up in P-cola. Bring it on, pal!

Bring what on?

 

[mudkow60]

I think that you can use your powers of decuction to figure it out. If you insist on writing such negative responses, you gotta expect some sh*t back in return.

Karma- ain't it a bitch!

 

[Spur]

Geez mudkow, dont get your panties in a wad... Hugh was spot on in his posts. Maybe he offended you, but who the F! cares? If you think going to a service academy and then bailing is a good thing to have on your record you need to be offended now and then. Is it something you can overcome? Obviously you are proof that you can, or could back in the mid-late 90's, in the Navy. The AF is different. First, we didnt boot all our mid grade pilots in the early 90's during the drawdown, and as a result trained far fewer during the same time period. This was the main driving force behind the huge shortage, and subsequently the lowering of standards for entering UPT since about '96-'97. Its all but over now, and the AF can start being far more selective. This is not good news for Leo and he needs to do everything he can to regain his competitive status.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I think that you can use your powers of decuction to figure it out. If you insist on writing such negative responses, you gotta expect some sh*t back in return.

Karma- ain't it a bitch!

Not really sure what you mean, but I do believe our friend here made a bad choice. It doesn't do anyone any good to blow smoke up his a$$ and tell him how everything will be okay. He has dug himself inta a hole. Not one that can't be dug out of, but a hole nonetheless. We should tell him that. If we do, he can arm himself with a better shovel instead of thinking everything is roses. The fact that your situation worked out doesn't make yours or his choice any better. My choices weren't all the best, but my situation worked out great. Just because my choices didn't come back to haunt me doesn't mean I would recommend them to anyone-I wouldn't. There's a difference between direct honesty and negativity. One might detect a bit of negativity in your posts. Those of us giving him the hard truth about his choices are trying to help. Are you?

 

[LJDRVR]

Dear Leo,

Yours is an interesting dilemma. Although you probably disliked reading it, much of the advice posted here exemplifies the type of attitudes you're going to encounter as you make your way to the UPT selection board.

Use this information to your advantage. Specifically, recognize the enormity of the task that lies ahead of you. Come to grips with the personal issues that caused you to fail at the academy. Recognize that your youth and lack of discipline and drive are probably the reasons you gave up. Be prepared to tell the interviewers what a stupid, selfish thing it was for you to give up the opportunity. (If you've not yet realized this, and are tempted to discount my rantings, then give it a few years, you'll get it.)

I can't even begin to help answer your question of tech versus non-tech degree, but I think there are underlying issues that should concern you more. First off, accountability. You claim to have left the academy because of hazing, but assert that you desire to be an Air Force pilot more than anything in the world. These statements are way too contradictory. Secondly, there's more than one way to skin this "career" cat, and I for one am curious as to what your real motivations are here. Is it to fly? No matter what? Is it to serve your country? Do you simply find yourself enamored of being an AF pilot? I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing you dude, but in my opinion, (worth what you paid for it) your primary focus here needs to be service. If you don't go into this with your eyes open to the fact that the needs of the Air Force are primary and that you will be an Officer first and a pilot second, you are setting yourself up for dissapointment. In my mind the key question is: would you still serve if not able to procure a pilot spot? If the answer is an unhesitating yes, then you'll do fine. press on and work your behind off.

I enlisted at the age of 19, thinking I would somehow go to OCS later and fly. (At the time I was just a slob in love with airplanes who lacked the discipline and grades to go to college) An interesting thing happened though, I LOVED the service! I was mentored by some very sharp NCO's and even though the only thing I ever wanted to do was fly, I spent 9 years on enlisted active duty before I seperated and started flying for a living. I don't regret having chosen the route I did for a minute. I was lucky enough to spend four years in a high-profile, presidential support special duty assignment that was hands-down the neatest thing next to aviation I ever did. It was like being on the olympic team. Now I get paid to fly jets for a living. What a scam. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that regardless of what happens to you hopefully you'll get the opportunity to serve in some fashion. Do everything you can to get that pilot slot, but PLEASE, don't miss out on the chance to serve your country if you don't get a shot at UPT.

You can have your cake and eat it to. Don't lose out on the opportunity to serve your country.

BTW Leo, read JJG's post twice. Best advice you'll get

Best of luck,