Non-tech pilot slots coming to an end?

[Leo R.]

Ok, first off, lemme give you some backgroundd information. I am currently a freshman in college, expected date to graduate, May 2007 (I am currently an AS 100). I am SERIOUS about beoming an Air Force pilot. I don't care what I get, nonetheless I'm going to try for ENJJPT, but as Jimmy Buffet said "flying is the greatest thing a man can do with his pants on." I'm not one of these idiots who has a momentary dream of wanting to fly because it looks cool. This is the only thing I've wanted to do my whole life, and I am certain that this is the only thing I'd be happy doing. I went to the Academy, but recently quit (I know, stupid). Anyhow, on Friday, an active duty Air Force Colonel came and spoke to us at Lead Lab. He mentioned that the days of non-tech pilot slots were coming to an end. He said that the Air Force is really starting to look for technical majors to start filling the pilot slots. I've been researching, and posting alot, and the general vibe I've received is "the AF doesn't care what your major is, as long as you have a high GPA, especially for an ENJJPT slot." Also, "I have been told that "the guys with the easier majors seem to be more competitive, since they usually have higher GPAs, and are more involved (less time studying)." In the AS 100 manual, is says that a military pilot's education requirements are "anything, but a degree in math, science, administration, or management is desireable." So I dunno guys. I started off as a civil engineer, and am thinking about switching to Business Administration/Management, with the attitude (I'm going to kick ass, and get my slot, and pursue my dream!). I really wouldn't want to go business as a fallback, but if I have a better chance of being a pilot, than sobeit. Anyways, with the news that this Colonel gave us, and some other research I've been doing, i.e. www.livetofly.com , I'm a little lost. Can someone please help guide me?? I really appreciate your time reading this post, I know it's long, but I appreciate your advice and concern. Thanks!

Very Respectfully,
Leo R.

 

[Falconjet]

I think that the common perception is that non-technical degrees are easier than engineering or mathematic type degrees. That may well be the case, but who knows, some really smart engineering folks have a hard time with basic economics. My advice would be to study something outside of aviation that interests you, bscause you will most likely do better in a major that you are interested in. My father bugged me for years to get an engineering degree, and I just wasn't interested in that. I got my degree in management, and got pretty decent grades in those classes, because it was more interesting to me. Now I wish that I had studied engineering in some ways, but I don't think I would have been as successful in school studying something I wasn't as interested in.

I don't know about the advice you got from the Colonel about AF aviation, but that is just one person's opinion, and you know the old saying. Opinions are like behinds, everyone has one and they all stink. You need to pursue a degree that you are interested in and will hopefully do well in because YOU want to do well in it. You may not be able to fly for any number of reasons, and wouldn't you rather have a degree in something you actually wouldn't mind doing if the flying gig doesn't work out? You could lose your medical some day and then what would you want to do with yourself.

The AF (and other services) are always going to be interested in folks with technical degrees who have done well throughout their formal education and training. They will continue (my humble opinion) to be interested in folks who are motivated and have been successful in other disciplines as well. Sure your odds might be a bit better with a technical degree, but if you have to force yourself to take that route and then don't do as well as you might have in a degree that was more to your liking, you might still not get a slot.

Getting military career advice from people in the currently in the military is a smart thing to do, but most of those in the military will also tell you that what they did to make it may not be the best route anymore, because things change. While this Colonel might be giving very good, generic advice, I would still follow my head and heart if it took me in a different direction. Plenty of pilots will be needed in the future, and there will be basket weavers and rocket scientists among them. Probably more rocket scientists, but there will be some basket weavers too.

Just make sure you are the best basket weaver you can be and then let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I am SERIOUS about beoming an Air Force pilot.

This is the only thing I've wanted to do my whole life, and I am certain that this is the only thing I'd be happy doing.

I went to the Academy, but recently quit (I know, stupid).

This begs the question....WHY?!?!?!?!?

You better have a hell of a good answer for your Air Force interviewers for ENJJPT...that's IF someone entertains your application after quitting the academy...the surest route to an Air Force cockpit out there.

 

[Draginass]

Well let's see. You're serious about wanting to be an Air Force pilot, but you quit the USAFA . . . . what the USAF considers the premier institution for developing future USAF officers and leaders . . . . something that many GREAT applicants are denied because there isn't room for everyone. Your actions denied another well qualified applicant entrance into into your academy class. The perception will be that you whimped-out and couldn't take it.

If I were on your application board, I wouldn't give you a second chance to quit (UPT), waste more taxpayer money and deny some other good applicant a opportunity. Too many other guys/gals just as good or better than you that don't have a track record of quitting.

Sorry if this sounds blunt, but it's not about "you" . . . . but rather about airpower.

To have any chance at all, you're going to have to bleed Air Force for the next couple of years and prove to your PAS that you have superior leadership qualities. A electrical or aeronautical major wouldn't hurt either.

You might be able to wrangle a ANG slot, but keeping in mind that there are an awful lot of academy graduates making the selection decisions . . . .

Life is tough . . . . it's tougher if you're stupid.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I went to the Academy, but recently quit (I know, stupid).

Again...Why?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Re: Re: Re: Non-tech pilot slots coming to an end?

Now back to HAPLs, LAPS, and PELs!

Atta boy.

 

[Leo R.]

Why is it now, all of the sudden, that I'm being flamed for my decision when in fact, I posted my concern for leaving a few months ago, and was given hope. I'm not going to ramble on and on about why I quit. The simple answer is the academy BS lifestlye wasn't for me. Sorry guys, but I didn't like being hazed, and I didn't feel like being incarcerated for the next for years, when in fact, you could accomplish the same exact thing through AFROTC. Yes, most guys I've spoken to say they wouldn't do the academy again. I'm not saying it's a bad place, it just isn't for everyone.
My AFROTC cadre don't seem to have a problem with it. They said it was completely understandable, and would not hinder me in any way. Do you really think the board would hold me accountable for a decision I made right out of high school, if in fact, I do awesome in ROTC and in school? I don't regret my decision at all. I love college life, and I love my freedom. Some days I feel "stupid" because the chance of getting a pilot slot are better, but it doesn't mean I can't aquire one through ROTC. Faclonjet, thank you for answering my question.

Very Respectfully,
Leo R.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Do you really think the board would hold me accountable for a decision I made right out of high school

YES

Some days I feel "stupid"[/B]

You should.



It's not about flaming you, it's about your wanting "more than anything else" to be an Air Force pilot and then throwing away the best possible opportunity out there to meet that end. If I were on your board, you'd have a very difficult task in front of you in convincing me that you wanted to be an Air Force pilot more than anything in the world (but couldn't be bothered by the "hazing" of the Academy life). The reasons you gave above are guaranteed to get you a "thanks, but no thanks" letter. If I were sorting through applications to get a pilot slot, yours wouldn't even make it into the "maybe" pile. You better kick the hell out of AFROTC if you even want to have a prayer at a slot.
Being a pilot is all about making decisions. Yours to leave the USAFA was probably one that will make your career plans change. Hopefully, you can overcome this. The odds aren't with you, I'm afraid. I could be wrong.

 

[Spur]

The Col may be correct. It would only make sense that the AF can start being selective with its UPT slots in the future, since the pilot shortage (retention) is under control, and the "bathtub" effect of training so few pilots in early 90's works its way out of the picture in a few years. That plus the 10 year committment (did someone mention incarceration... letsee 4 yrs in C-Springs or 10 yrs @120 days/year in the sandbox?) means things are not on your side. The only question is timing, which of course, is everything. Can you get in before the pendulum swings??

 

[Leo R.]

To all of you who don't think I can make it, I hope to prove you wrong in a couple of years.

 

[NWA-AirGuard]

If you couldn't take a little "hazing" (which is nothing like it use to be), then you're going to have a very difficult time in UPT. You'll probably quit when you're in Del Rio, TX working 12 hour days and having to study on your off time, since you enjoy your freedom. If freshman year at the Air Force Academy was my toughest year, then the year of UPT was a close second. Good luck.

 

[TonyC]

Exhibit A:

... when in fact, you could accomplish the same exact thing through AFROTC.

Not exactly.

My AFROTC cadre don't seem to have a problem with it.

Why should they? From where they sit, it must be gratifying to see a zoomie fail.

Do you really think the board would hold me accountable for a decision I made right out of high school, ... ?

Absolutely.

I don't regret my decision at all.

Perhaps it's denial, or perhaps you're just too stupid to realize it yet. You WILL regret it. I think you already do.

I love college life, and I love my freedom.

Hopefully you love college life and "freedom" (sigh) more than flying.

Some days I feel "stupid" because the chance of getting a pilot slot are better...

You should also feel remorse for cheating another fine young American out of a chance to attend USAFA and succeed. If you had any spine, you'd contact the Congressman that appointed you, find out who was next in line to you, seek them out, and deliver a personal apology. You may not have to look far, as they may be in one of your freshman "living the life of freedom" classes with you.

I'll side with those who have posted above (Dragin, Hugh)- - if I were on the selection board, I'd not give you a second chance. Someone who can trivialize the opportunity of a Service Academy education as you have doesn't stand a snowball's chance of surviving the second week of UPT standup. USAFA and UPT both require sacrifice. You don't appear to be willing to do that.

You'd better pick a degree that will lead you to a non-flying career.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Lighten up!

Yeah, the guy wasted some of uncle Sam's $. Trust me, the AF wastes more money for stupid things, like washing someone out of UPT 1 week prior to graduation; I've seen it happen and the dude wasn't even that bad of a pilot. No one likes quitters but everyone deserves a second chance. Speaking of hazing in UPT...yes there is still that bs hazing going on in UPT, but I don't think it's anything like the academy or field training. It is, after all, a kindler gentler military (maybe too gentle at times).

Leo,
Yeah, you did f*** up, but sounds like you've learned your lesson. Don't let us old folks get to you. That's all becasue we've been around the block a few times and seen a thing or two. Believe it or not, hazing is a part of character building process and if you can make it work for you, you are a better man than I. You know the saying... "what doesn't kill you will only make you stronger". Getting your wings is well worth the bs. Good luck!

 

[rainman_02]

Re: Re: Re: Non-tech pilot slots coming to an end?

If Leo R. were a female, I could understand why...

This comment is sad.

In Leo's defense though, one of my best friends is now flying KC-10's, and is a USAFA grad. He's told me many times if he could go back and do it all again he'd go to a state school somewhere with more of a social life, and go ROTC or OTS. However he graduated c/o '02

Odds are, I know your friend.

I'll tell you that this 2002 Grad who is in the KC-10 school-house would not have given up his USAFA experience for anything in the world. Did it suck? Yeah. A lot? Yeah. Was it worth it? Yeah.



On topic, my 13 months of UPT was just like compressing all four years of the Zoo into one year of training. Sure, I was not the recipient of in-cockpit physical abuse...but I know those that were. There was mental "hazing," but hazing is really a funny concept...it's hard to define. I wasn't hazed when I was a smack, yet Leo was hazed.

 

[negativebalance]

SUCK IT UP

You came to this message board for advice so listen to it. Perhaps you might need a lesson in sacrafice. You've already failed yourself and have shown solid signs of weakness. Two things that have never been traits of a military pilot. You need to take a look at your self in the mirror right now and realize that the military will never be about you, that it will be about your buddy next to you. I really don't know what to say but you sound like a whore trying to join the church.
The only advice I could possiblely give you is to enlist in the Air Guard.....have them pay for school......be an excellent crew chief or something.......and lobby from there. You shot yourself in the foot so let it heal and march on.

 

[NookyBooky]

Some reasons to be happy about not being at the Acadamy:

1. No matter what school you go to, odds are it will have a hell of a lot more girls then the acadamy.

2. In the Navy (if you entertain the thought of joining the navy instead), you get to get shot of the front of a boat, brag about your carrier landing skills, and be happy you went to a college with girls, all while you sit on a boat with thousands of dudes.

3. Flight attendents, female ones of course (if you want to do the airline thing).

4. Girls, sex, parties, girls, sex, girls, parties, girls, sex, parties, etc. You get the picture?


On a serious note, make the best of what you got. If you want to be an AF pilot, go for it. F#*k those who say you can't, find out for yourself. But try to enjoy what life has dealt you or else all the good things will pass you by before you know it.

 

[skiddriver]

To all of you who don't think I can make it, I hope to prove you wrong in a couple of years.

Leo R.

I hope so too. I think you're receiving some honest unvarnished opinions here, and I'm sorry if they're disheartening. Buuut...

You're paddling upstream now because of your decision to leave the academy. Yes, you can overcome that, but you have to look at it this way. When the board is selecting folks for a pilot slot, they're going to look at that decision first. It may not knock you out of the running completely, but when they see your non-tech degree on top of that, it's going to greatly reduce your chances.

If you really want to be an AF pilot, you need to give them what they want. First and foremost, they want an Acad grad. Okay, you can't give them that now. Next, they want a tech grad, with great grades and super participation in AFROTC. You can give them that. Don't stack the deck against yourself.

Finally, as to your question

Originally posted by Leo R.
Do you really think the board would hold me accountable for a decision I made right out of high school

Yes, absolutely. The military does it all the time. Kids do things without thinking that forever disqualify them from getting commissioned, or reduce their chances of getting a pilot slot. Simple things like getting a tatoo on their neck, or a drunk driving conviction. Spending the night in jail for shoplifting or getting in a fight at the wrong place/wrong time. It's all part of the package and there are enough folks who can keep their nose clean knocking at the door to make it a waste of time for the military to try and give second chances to those who don't.

Something to keep keep in mind.

Skiddriver
USNA '80

OBTW, the Navy and Marine Corps are probably not going down the tech degree road just yet. If you are definitely not interested in a tech degree, at least talk to the officer selection officers for those services and see how it looks getting a pilot slot there. I'll warn you that those slots are getting very hard to get, most of our pilots end up in helos, and in particular, Marine Corps training makes USAFA hazing pale in comparison.

 

[mudkow60]

Hey, Leo-

I left the Naval Academy to go to a Pac 10 school, where I partied my ass off, got good grades, and had a really great time in college. Oh, and I got a pilot slot thru ROTC.

Tell all the negative a-holes to take a hike. I have nothing but respect for all my academy grad buddies, but everyone who says it is the only sure way to get a pilot slot is an elitist.

Good luck with your pursuit for the covetted lead wings.

 

[skiddriver]

Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I take that back. Party your toukas off, demand that the board take you "just the way you are", major in Modern French Poetry. You're guaranteed a slot.

Oh, and be sure and disregard any advice that might interfere with you doing exactly what you feel like at any given moment. You'll not only be guaranteed a pilot slot, you'll also get that AFTPS class you wanted, with the obligatory astronaut follow-on.

 

[RShebib]

Leo,

Seems like you're taking a pretty good hit about leaving the academy, but let me give you a different perspective. First of all, the academy is not for everyone. While it is an outstanding academic institution and a great way to get a pilot slot, it is by no means the ONLY way to get one and by no means significantly decreases your chances.

I have a bunch of friends who went to the AFA and I'd say that half of them wished they never went. If all you get out of the 4 years in college is a degree, you've wasted your time. It should be the best 4 years of your life and I promise if you stayed at the academy vs going to a civilian university, your experience would have been MUCH different.

ROTC has many slots where you can compete for pilot training. If you don't make it Sheppard, there are plenty of chances to get to one of the other bases. The only real difference is you have a better chance of getting a fighter out of Sheppard, but you said you didn't care what you flew, so that shouldn't matter.

As far as answering questions as to why you left the academy. Like I said earlier, you can just say that place wasn't for you at this particular time in your life. You know your desire to fly in the US Air Force is what you want to do, but that the academy was not the place for you to get your education. You will not be looked down on....your fellow ROTC cadets are not happy because a zoomie failed.....sounds like you're getting a lot of responses from zoomies here who can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to go to that "institution" (remember, they call it the zoo for a reason), or from people who have little to no idea about what they're talking about....

Best of luck and enjoy you college years and ROTC experience....I believe that's the best way to spend your 4 years getting a degree!!!!