No Pilot hiring in 2013 at DAL?

[JustaNumber]

Word is the guy who gave DL the deal got "talked to sternly" by the honchos at your airline.

You make it sound like some intern quickly signed one of the largest fleet modification deals in Southwest's history while everyone was away at lunch. Give me a break! A contract of this magnitude is written and signed by the "honchos" who do the talking to. I'm not buying a word of it.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Forcing Airtran 737 pilots to retroactively paying for their own 737 type ratings?

Shhh, don't give them any ideas.

 

[enuffalready]

You make it sound like some intern quickly signed one of the largest fleet modification deals in Southwest's history while everyone was away at lunch. Give me a break! A contract of this magnitude is written and signed by the "honchos" who do the talking to. I'm not buying a word of it.

no kidding....even though genital is on my ignore i get the displeasure of his comments by proxy.. goooood lord.. Did he really say the guy that wrote the SW deal got a "stern talking to" ..WTF?? Did that darn SMU grad student sign that deal while the 'honchos' were out painting SONG II over the SW logo? Does anyone take anything that guy says seriously? GL=TARD

 

[redflyer65]

Ouch. How will Red respond to that?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Easy. The company 'as a whole' will be much more financially stable with the 717 gone. Continue year after year of ONE fleet type, one parts list, one sim type, etc, etc, etc. Really a massive cost savings that alot of airlines don't enjoy.

The Airtran guys? The will be apart of that stable, profitable future. You guys want to talk about Company business moves like off loading the 717 at a profit, or the SLI? Both deals are inked and done.

Que the General's deadhorse. I bet he looks good up on that horse with the double breasted Riverboat jacket.

 

[Flyer1015]

Easy. The company 'as a whole' will be much more financially stable with the 717 gone. Continue year after year of ONE fleet type, one parts list, one sim type, etc, etc, etc. Really a massive cost savings that alot of airlines don't enjoy.

The Airtran guys? The will be apart of that stable, profitable future. You guys want to talk about Company business moves like off loading the 717 at a profit, or the SLI? Both deals are inked and done.

Que the General's deadhorse. I bet he looks good up on that horse with the double breasted Riverboat jacket.

And you just answered like a politician, sidestepping from the main question. Bottom line is your pilot group screwed the Airtran pilots hard. Of course the excuse I hear is that "they voted it in, we didn't force them." That's like telling a guy to punch himself in the face or be shot by this gun you're holding. Of course he'll punch himself in the face, and you'll say he gave himself a black eye by his own choice. Really? Wasn't really a choice. The real threat of non-integration was a career suicide for every single Airtran pilot. Way to go. Why don't you guys now petition to force Airtran pilots to retro-pay for their own 737 type ratings? You guys paid for it, it isn't fair Airtran gets to get away with that for free.

Go Southwest!

 

[redflyer65]

I screwed the Airtran pilots? How did I answer like a politician. I responded to our company making a good business decision with regard to the 717.

I understand the Airtran guys bid differently because they thought that plane was staying. I get that, they should at least get to rebid accordingly.

Getting rid of the 717 is a great move for SW AND it's employees....long term. For every employee.

Gary Kelly pretty much crafted the whole Airtran deal. Money, SLI list, the whole enchilada. Again, completely water under the bridge at this point. Done and over.

Guys like you and Genital get some joy out of telling us we did this and we did that, when most the times you guys have no dog in this fight. Which is bizzare that you even spend this much time worrying about OUR integration. That's beyond me. I don't obess about how USAir, or UAL/CAL, or DL/NW turned out. That's their deal, not mine. Our side was threatened time and time again with arbitration. Was their threat worse on the AAI side? Absolutely. What was I supposed to do about it?

You can look back on every post I've made about the subject, and you won't be able to find were I said 'you guys voted for it overwelmingly'. I'm not that obtuse. I've seen others say that, but I know they were twisted into it. I have said time and time again that it's time for both sides to pull together and I'd like them to be over here NOW. I look forward to flying with some of my friends from Airtran. It's pretty cool to run into them at the terminal now.

But I'm glad you decide to get on your high horse and tell ME what I did wrong. The facts are the facts on both sides. You'll find I don't try to spin things into some fantasy land scenerio like the General does. Good luck with Peter Hunt, your going to need it.

 

[General Lee]

Red,

Everyone can understand that your pilots were ready to fight for the SLI, that always happens. Normally it is in front of an arbitrator or group of them, not along side a boss. That is a problem in front of most people's eyes. Now your union still allows the pay difference on same equipment, a sort of B-Scale. That ain't good....and won't be forgotten. Try to spin that, Red.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flyer1015]

Our side was threatened time and time again with arbitration.

How is arbitration, with a neutral third party, a threat? DAL/NWA did that route. SWAPA knew they'd be screwed in arbitration, aka, some Airtran guys would actually make out pretty good on the final list. An arbitration isn't even a threat, and even if you consider it as one, it was nothing compared to the threat AAI pilots received.

 

[redflyer65]

I never was afraid of abitration, just telling you the union mantra at the time. They were trying to twist our arms off with the perceived 'threat' of arbitration. I never bought into it.

The Airtran guys will be over before the end of 2014, which is closing in fast and we will all be working together and they will be making more than the General.

You see, that's the real rub for him. He could constantly beat up those guys for running a small LCC in ATL because he was the mighty Delta Riverboat Pilot, and they were 'beneath him' for years. But talk about the irony of those guys jumping over him on pay and benefits....well, it really makes me laugh. The General? Not so much. That's why he's constantly on here trying to spew his anti-SW venom. Not only does the General hate the fact that Southwest just powered through an event like 9/11 (while Delta was teetering on the edge bankruptcy), but now his hometown archrivals will be making more than him, thanks to.....well, Southwest. The same company that pissed him off after the massive downturn.

Will there be some disenfranchised Airtran guys 10 years from now? Sure. Just like with any merger. What about the PanAm guys? or that sliver of Northwest guys that took it in the shorts? Yep. Does it make it right? Probably not, but what can anyone do about it when it's water under the bridge? NOTHING.

RF

 

[JumpersAway]

With the continued reductions in capacity, I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't well into 2014 by the time DAL hires. With the flow throughs, the furlough bypassees, and such, I wouldn't be suprised if the average "off the street" pilot doesn't have a shot until 2015+.

 

[General Lee]

With the continued reductions in capacity, I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't well into 2014 by the time DAL hires. With the flow throughs, the furlough bypassees, and such, I wouldn't be suprised if the average "off the street" pilot doesn't have a shot until 2015+.

There will be some flow throughs, but the DC9s are now supposedly staying longer into 2014, 14 MD90s will come next year, and the 717s and 739s start coming next year also. Yes, those 739s are replacements, but there will still be guys in training for the swap out of some older 757s etc. And the big question is still retirements. Nobody knows how many will jump ship. If the Fiscal Cliff doesn't kill everyone and gets resolved, and maybe the economy gets a jump start, maybe things will be better, and more guys will leave. You just never know, but there will be a lot of retirements, eventually.....

Also, I think newhire pay in 2015 goes to $71 an hour (?). That is a lot better than the $40 an hour AA will be offering. But, I think many Regional guys will be throwing in their apps at all of the legacies. The retirement numbers going forward are just too good. Better QOL and pay eventually will happen as guys retire in huge numbers.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Waylon]

On Delta Net under pilot selection it still says anticipating pilot hiring late 2013. So there is still hope. After reading how the statement came up, maybe he was referring to the number of pilots forced to retire would not trigger any hiring for 2013. I can't believe they will be able to staff the MD-90's and 717's with excess pilots they are carrying. I could be wrong.

 

[DYLIN]

On Delta Net under pilot selection it still says anticipating pilot hiring late 2013. So there is still hope. After reading how the statement came up, maybe he was referring to the number of pilots forced to retire would not trigger any hiring for 2013. I can't believe they will be able to staff the MD-90's and 717's with excess pilots they are carrying. I could be wrong.

Apparently one LEC rep said they are currently 1000 overstaffed.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

I hate that this has turned into another tired DAL vs SWA thread, but along those lines, has anyone considered that since SWA screwed the Airtran pilots so badly, lots of ATL based 717 pilots (particularly FOs) may be applying at Delta as soon as hiring starts. If I were junior at Airtran, lived in ATL, and faced with the prospect of commuting to BWI or OAK, I sure would! There may not be as many slots for the regional pilots in 2013-14 as everyone thinks.

 

[Clutch]

I hate that this has turned into another tired DAL vs SWA thread, but along those lines, has anyone considered that since SWA screwed the Airtran pilots so badly, lots of ATL based 717 pilots (particularly FOs) may be applying at Delta as soon as hiring starts. If I were junior at Airtran, lived in ATL, and faced with the prospect of commuting to BWI or OAK, I sure would! There may not be as many slots for the regional pilots in 2013-14 as everyone thinks.

Yeah right! Work for Southwest or start at the bottom at Delta. That's a no brainer.

Doesn't matter, the only people getting hired at Delta will be under qualified females.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Doesn't matter, the only people getting hired at Delta will be under qualified females.

Doesn't matter, since we got hired long before you, your sorry butt will be taking orders from an under qualified female... if you even pass the psych test here.

But with your lack of intellect, and constant "witty" comments that only you find witty, I'm sure you're ASA4LIFE. Enjoy that MRJ.

 

[Clutch]

Doesn't matter, since we got hired long before you, your sorry butt will be taking orders from an under qualified female... if you even pass the psych test here.

But with your lack of intellect, and constant "witty" comments that only you find witty, I'm sure you're ASA4LIFE. Enjoy that MRJ.

At least you admit you're under-qualified...

 

[General Lee]

Apparently one LEC rep said they are currently 1000 overstaffed.

A person in the Chief Pilot office told me about 400 fat. But, as people start to go to training on the incoming 717s and 737s, plus the 14 MD90s coming next year alone, things will start to get interesting. The DC9s will be staying longer than initially thought too, now into 2014. So, I would guess maybe some flow ups late 2013, then actual hiring in early 2014? Just speculation.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Lear70]

I hate that this has turned into another tired DAL vs SWA thread, but along those lines, has anyone considered that since SWA screwed the Airtran pilots so badly, lots of ATL based 717 pilots (particularly FOs) may be applying at Delta as soon as hiring starts. If I were junior at Airtran, lived in ATL, and faced with the prospect of commuting to BWI or OAK, I sure would! There may not be as many slots for the regional pilots in 2013-14 as everyone thinks.

There's quite a few who have openly stated they are going to be doing exactly that. A pilot in the bottom 300 on the combined list at SWA won't upgrade even with 2% growth for over 20 years from Date of Signing last year. That's not a typo. Hell, I'm almost 1,200 on the combined list from the bottom and my upgrade looks to be 15 years from DoS last year.

And a junior F/O commute to BWI? I can't even hold BWI except on reserve. They're going to OAK/PHX, or LAS.

Our guys under 40 are thinking about it very seriously. No one really loses in that situation, the wide body access will make them their money back and then some if they can get hired in the first couple of years of hiring, the people below them get to move up, SWA management get to hire new-hires at 1st year pay in their place, etc, etc.

I'm estimating we'll lose at least 10% of the OAT pilots in the next 5 years to other companies. Some of the older guys who won't re-upgrade are talking about going ex-pat, etc.

But on-topic yes, I think you'll see a fair number of pilots with 717 experience get picked up by Delta as new-hires, especially initially when they will want to hire people with experience on the plane to pair with their upgrading CA's who have never seen it before. Just makes sense (not that THAT means anything in this industry).

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Seriously Lear?

You make it sound like Delta is re-launching the Concordes..."Reheat ON!"

It's just a DC-9 with an MD-11 Cockpit and some of us Del-duh types have flown both!

(Saw your smiley....just bustin balls)