No flapulation

[Sam Snead]

Argg.

My take on the flapulation is that....

when a competent FO is flying and the captain puts his/her hand on the lever, and the FO takes it as a "hint" that the FO is late or the captain thinks it's time for lever movement.

80% of the time I think it's chop-busting on the CA's part. It's just something that the FO has to deal with the whole time he/she is SIC.

I would ask the captains out there to remember what it was like to be an FO and limit the chop-busting to a minimum. Let the FO fly it. If he/she makes a mistake, just tell them. Don't bust their chops by "hinting".

If you want the flaps set and the FO hasn't called for them... consider whether giving them just a few more seconds will make a huge difference.

Delicate balance, but with pilots who get along it can be ultra-smooth without disturbing the authority gradient.

 

[threegreen]

I agree

 

[Sam Snead]

I hate flying with stupid FOs who are 6 miles out, above the glide slope and 250 kts pitching down and NOT asking for the flaps to slow down. I always help them out by placing my hand on the flap lever to give them a HINT that we need to slow down and get the flaps out.

You may have let the situation go too far if you're at 250 and 6 out (unless that's the way YOU as the CA wanted it, but it doesn't seem like it.)

It seems like you wanted to let the FO fly it (which I applaud), but you waited too long to step in.

This does NOT mean the FO was NOT stupid, incompetent, PFT, Riddle Wonder, spiky hair, squeaked through, - backpack wearing person.

I have done the same thing; that's why I recognize it.

 

[Captain X]

Hey, on the flipside, we have some pilots (CAs and FOs) at our company who like to call for flaps 9 passing thru 10,000.

Then they fly the last 30-50 miles with all the extra drag and higher thrust and bitch because out flight plan fuel numbers are "never even close." :laugh:

Not to mention that those guys are the ones that have the highest incidence rate for FLAP LIMITATION EXCEEDANCES.

Somewhere, somehow, the things called SPEED BRAKE or SPOILERS became bad juju or indicated that you had planned incorrectly and somehow screwed up. There are certain arrivals were I "plan" them with the intention of popping the boards.

Other times, if ATC wants/needs a "hang the anvil out" descent, "This is me on the boards."

And yes, if for some reason my descent did not work the way I planned (miscalculated -- known to happen on a long day) or the winds changed/shifted on the way down...you guessed it, "This is me on the boards."

A professional pilot is gonna plan ahead, recognize when that plan is working, see the potential for the plan NOT to work, and use all available tools and resources in the aircraft to get the aircraft where they want it in a safe and efficient manner that is as comfortable to their passengers as possible all things considered.

 

[dojetdriver]

All Captains should get paid IOE training pay to fly with FO's. I had one FO who during a windshear event on take off thought he was flying a piston twin again and firewalled the engines even though MAX power was already set. I guess he wanted to see what a shelled hot section would feel like but he went to Riddle and he will tell you and anyone else listening that he has the best flight education money can buy. It would be nice if they taught the kids how to be professional, mature, and less obnoxious.

On the flip side, all FO's should get paid a "new/scared captain pay rate" whenever a captian has either 1)just upgraded, or 2)switched equipment, or 3)BOTH. You know the type, as an FO he was laid back and loose goose and now he's so uptight it's digusting. Or, the CA just finished training/ioe and is brand new in the type and now he thinks he's going to tell the fo (who usually has way more time it type) how to fly the airplane.

 

[Captainzero1]

Amen dojetdriver, amen!

 

[propjockey]

I heartily agree with CaptainX, Sam Snead, and dojetdriver. Having been a captain before, and now being back in the right seat myself (hopefully not too much longer), I've seen both sides of this fence. I'm sure at many airlines, there aren't many experiences more unpleasant for an FO than flying with a "New Captain."

People bash Great Lakes a lot on this board (and much of it is deserved) but they turn out some very fine captains there. Yes, even new ones. Why? Because they start training FOs to be captains from Day ONE. I know there are some things can only be learned through experience, but with the right corporate culture, there are a lot of things that CAN be passed on in a meaningful way to a pilot while he is in the right seat. Obviously, this doesn't happen very much at any airline where the prevailing attitude is "FOs are stupid."

The time to train a captain is BEFORE he upgrades so he doesn't freak out when he gets in the left seat.

 

[Turtlesfly]

I don't think Riddle is your problem . . . I think the 700/100 mins are your problem. There are Riddle people who have stayed in the instructing side for years and taught college courses and make very good FO's and CA's. There are also some total dumbas#es from your local FBO. The point isn't where you go - and to say that all Riddle or ComAir school grads (or wherever) all act a certain way is to say that all chicks from California are hoes.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

What is the windshear escape procedure at your company?

Looks like he works for Colgan. I'd be afraid to firewall any engines maintained by Colgan too....I would take my chances on the windshear.

 

[8HourPilot]

Okay, what is the big deal if the left seat guy wants to hit the flaps early. Seriously, does it really matter? Please tell me you don't care, because if it isnt a safety of flight thing, get over yourself and toss out the flaps. It keeps everyone happy, and I am sure you'll live to fly another day, with a lesser douchbag........and I am a right seater. Chill.......major on the majors, and please minor on the minors.