No Feb. 15th Furloughs at XJ

[CptMurf]

So the last two days I have flown with DTW XJ FO's that are supposed to be furloughed on Feb. 15th. Both were relatively senior on the Feb. 15th furlough list and both received build-up lines for Feb. Well, it stands to reason that if they are furloughed than everyone below them is also, so that would leave NO RESERVES in DTW for the end of FEB.

So I did some more checking, the same thing is happening in MEM (FEB 15th furloughs on build-up the rest straight reserves).....Unless there was a MAJOR marketing change, the company would be left with NO RESERVES system-wide...so there is NO WAY these guys are leaving on the 15th.

Hang in there guys....this isn't over yet!

 

[Yudso]

What about the downgrades who didn't finish training in time to bid for Feb? Aren't they on reserve?

 

[AvroGuy]

Only Time will tell. Till then I am still seeking other employment.

 

[CptMurf]

Did some some checking Yudso....Everyone that was to short course in Jan was able to bid in Feb, so they are accounted for. There are people in the long course that could fill the reserves, but there are WAY more people supposedly leaving than took the long course. Here's the breakdown...

------SF-340------------------------------- AVRO
Furloughs__In Training_____________ Furloughs__ In Training
___35_______ 6_________ DTW_______ 6_________ 0
___14_______ 3_________ MEM_______ 8_________ 2
____7_______ 3_________ MSP________0_________ 0

It just doesn't add up, there will not be enough reserve coverage if they all happen.

Not saying some could not happen...but DEFINATELY not all of them

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yup no more relying on us 3 CVG leftovers (plus the 3 using the out of base option) to deadhead all over to cover the holes either after 2-15 unless something changes. I'm personally looking forward to some paid vacation.

Guess planning didn't plan on so many people quitting. Half my newhire class will have other jobs by 2-16. And I know a few ex-CVG'ers that wouldn't have been laid off have quit for greener pastures.
FWIW, Word had it from a downgrade that js'd on my flight recently that they didn't plan on any captains quitting at all and that was the reason for the rampant junior manning.

Serves the SLT right for all the shenanigans they've been pulling.

 

[OttoPilot]

So the last two days I have flown with DTW XJ FO's that are supposed to be furloughed on Feb. 15th. Both were relatively senior on the Feb. 15th furlough list and both received build-up lines for Feb. Well, it stands to reason that if they are furloughed than everyone below them is also, so that would leave NO RESERVES in DTW for the end of FEB.

So I did some more checking, the same thing is happening in MEM (FEB 15th furloughs on build-up the rest straight reserves).....Unless there was a MAJOR marketing change, the company would be left with NO RESERVES system-wide...so there is NO WAY these guys are leaving on the 15th.

Hang in there guys....this isn't over yet!

Per the contract, if you are available for half the month or more you are entitled to bid for and be awarded a line.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

I think they will be in for a big surprise when a lot of us on the furlough list have already found new employment.

 

[Yudso]

Does anyone know how many folks have left XJ, that were not getting furloughed?

 

[CptMurf]

I understand that they are allowed to bid a line per the contract. The thing is, given the sheer number of furloughs that were supposed to happen, and the fact that they were awarded build-up lines suprises me. If they all are furloughed now, there will not be enough reserves system wide to run the airline. They cannot count on the people that are supposed to finish training. Scheduling does not even know about them until the IOE instructor signs off the paperwork and faxes it to scheduling. There will be trips assisgned to the build-ups, with no reserves who do those go to?

I'm just calling a bluff to the sheer amount of furloughs that were supposed to happen. There still may be some unfortunate folks leaving on the 15th, but I would think that if you got a build-up or even one of the first couple of straight reserve lines..... You aren't going anywhere, not on the 15th that is.

Good luck to any of you on the furlough list. This fight is not over, and I believe if you want to come back you will have an opportunity to sometime soon. It is up to those of us left here to make it a place worth coming back to!

 

[IHateMgmt]

I still don't believe I will get furloughed on the 15th either. I've still got a few backups, of course. It's all just part of the game.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I guess the best way to assure I don't get laid off is to go ahead and put the cash down for the honeymoon I couldn't take last year since I couldn't get any time off. That should guarantee I'll have to work and my honeymoon will get cancelled (minus appropriate cancellation fees of course)

 

[JPAustin]

Hmm, I was just thinking last week about bidding highspeed reserve because I'm tired of working right now... good thing I didn't! I would not be surprised to see this company string us back to little reserves so all those few on reserve get their arses worked to the bone. Just like during the first rounds of furloughs pre-contract signing!

PS-- Any truth to that "I'm not a blue-collar worker..." response by Spanjers in a RGS?

 

[trestles]

wmusigpi--just wondering where a lot of xj guys/girls are finding work. I'm one of the recent furloughees. I know horizon and air wisconsin are giving preferential, but do you know where else they're going? I'm really debating about going back to xj, but I'm not going to wait around either.

 

[wmudriver]

I know of some who are bailiing for Airwilly, Xjet, Horizon, CHQ...some are going back to their old jobs (cargo, 135/91 stuff) and some are sticking it out for a few months to see what happens and taking unemployment/side jobs (I'm in that boat...if we actually get furloughed)

 

[WMUSIGPI]

As far as the FO's it's what Driver said. Some of the captains I have flown with have said they are dusting off the resume to send to SWA, FedEx, Continental ect. These are 10-20 year guys here that if they get furloughed then that means our bankruptcy was as productive as National, Vanguard, and Midway. (can't believe they referenced these in the last newsletter as what we need to do)

 

[xjhawk]

just a thought guys and gals.....take a monster job search and see what highschool grads can make with no experience. I did it and found that starting pay was way higher than what we start out now. So, knowing this, does anyone want to take any concessions? Or think of this, Comair is taking reluctant cuts to a level that is still currently higher than our rates right now! Lets think about this before the excitment of cuts for jets gets in too many minds! Please let your local union rep know what you want! i hope you will say like what i did, that no cuts are the only acceptable option!

 

[IHateMgmt]

As far as the FO's it's what Driver said. Some of the captains I have flown with have said they are dusting off the resume to send to SWA, FedEx, Continental ect. These are 10-20 year guys here that if they get furloughed then that means our bankruptcy was as productive as National, Vanguard, and Midway. (can't believe they referenced these in the last newsletter as what we need to do)

I don't think the captains are leaving for fear of being furloughed. The ones I talk to are just sick of all the sh*t. This is the kick in the butt most needed to add up the ol' log book and move on to better places. I like that question on the conference call... how many new captain upgrades will it take to offset the savings of the proposed paycuts?

 

[N590MA]

Most of us that have been here 5+ yrs are trying to move on because we are sick and tired of Spanky and the boys incompetence. First, with the "growth Contract", now with this farce of a Bankruptcy. Sadly, I was downgraded before I had enough PIC to apply where I really want to go(Fed Ex), but I am looking at some others.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I don't think the captains are leaving for fear of being furloughed. The ones I talk to are just sick of all the sh*t. This is the kick in the butt most needed to add up the ol' log book and move on to better places. I like that question on the conference call... how many new captain upgrades will it take to offset the savings of the proposed paycuts?

No I didn't mean to say captains feared furlough (downgrade maybe) Just that many are tired of all the BS the last few years and are starting to figure anything else has to be better.

 

[8HourPilot]

No I didn't mean to say captains feared furlough (downgrade maybe) Just that many are tired of all the BS the last few years and are starting to figure anything else has to be better.

Hey my man, perhaps you should think before posting, "anything else" is not better. This is the very reason why a vote to shut the company down will never be 100%, there are very senior guys/gals that would take a huge hit to go somewhere else. I know the situation is killing ya, but lending your opinion, a very negative one, time and time again isn't going to make it any better. NWA is mean/nasty, but they are far from stupid, XJ will rise once again. Hang in there.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Hey my man, perhaps you should think before posting, "anything else" is not better. This is the very reason why a vote to shut the company down will never be 100%, there are very senior guys/gals that would take a huge hit to go somewhere else. I know the situation is killing ya, but lending your opinion, a very negative one, time and time again isn't going to make it any better. NWA is mean/nasty, but they are far from stupid, XJ will rise once again. Hang in there.

I understand that. I don't expect the top 20% of the pilots to do anything to risk their current position. I was just relaying the opinions of SOME of the captains I have flown with. Personally I am looking forward to the layoff. I'm quite happy to collect some unemployment and sit at home til all the bs blows over. I have talked with several senior FO's (again) and they have all been of the opinion not one cent in concessions. And all the junior FO's I have talked to have said the same thing. Granted us soon to be furloughed don't really have much to loose if we say no concessions and get shut down like the top couple hundred guys. Besides the company wanted to get concessions for the CRJ's. The union said no way... we still got the CRJ's (sort of) What's to say this will be any different. Personal opinion, the concessions that were "offered" to us were an insult to all the pilots here. I'd hope not one pilot would vote yes on that trash. Reality says someone will. That's thier right. I personally will vote with my feet. I can't afford to work for less than the current deal. And now without open time even that is getting hard. I have a family to support, not a family to support me.
The only thing I am truly ticked about is the way we are being treated here in CVG. We seem to have gotten the short end of the deal here by far. ( but I guess that's just from my perspective, I'm sure the guys pulled out of class, or maybe the guys in the hiring pool, or maybe the now 6 year FO's could feel different)

Glad to see things in Chaut-Publ-Ica Land are well.

 

[8HourPilot]

Things can always be better my friend, it's what we chose to do with the current situation that makes us who we are. Me personally, I'll fly my line, and I'll come home, to deliver yellow pages......I joke not. But I will smile, this is what I wanted, and if this isn't enough, I will move on. Hang in there, as stated earlier, and you know it, this thing is so far from over.

 

[flyin backwards]

hey wmusigpi,

If you can't afford to live off what you make here, how do you think your going to live off unemployment?? based on your current salary you will get about $250-280 a week. Try living off that. Not much fun, I have because of Mesaba, needed to find another job real fast.

Good luck, vote no(like I will) and things should turn around.

 

[HulkHogan]

hey wmusigpi,

If you can't afford to live off what you make here, how do you think your going to live off unemployment?? based on your current salary you will get about $250-280 a week. Try living off that. Not much fun, I have because of Mesaba, needed to find another job real fast.

Good luck, vote no(like I will) and things should turn around.

Nope your wrong unemployment works out to be about 340 a week

 

[Yudso]

Probies have no vote. All we can do is encourage others to take stand.

 

[flyin backwards]

Nope your wrong unemployment works out to be about 340 a week

Unemployment is based on your base salary over the last 3 quarters, it could vary depending on what you make and where you live. I assumed he lived in MN, and that is about where I was when I was on it.

 

[captpetefam]

That depends

It differs from State to State.

 

[fieldinsight]

Maximum benefit in Michigan is $362/week. And yes, it's based on last 3 quarters. And so far MI UIA has been a total pain in the a$$....

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yup my official home is Michigan. And yup I plan on about 300 per week unemployment...I also plan on lower costs (no crashpad, less gasoline) while laid off so it should be near a wash on total costs. And yes it is a big P.I.T.A. I have already told my union reps my opinion and unfortunately I will be laid off before I get to the 1 year point so I can't vote HEL! NO! to concessions (as will everyone at the moment some by only 1 day) Thankfully My wife now has a decent paying job so for now we can manage the bills at least til summer.
Personally I plan to enjoy a little time off. I haven't had more than a few days off in years so this should be nice....at least for a while. I've faced worse and survived this is just another speedbump in my life.

 

[xjhawk]

well, how long will we keep out flight benifits? i am planning a trip to a cheap location.....sleep on a beach somewhere.....get drunk and think about what to do next.....my sore point is that i have talked to two pilots in minneapolis. one captain and one FO both said...."imagine the amount of airplanes we would get if we undercut even mesa?" i was like, no way! F#$% NO remember, go to monster and see what a highschool education will get you a year. More than what i started at here, and about what i am making now....at three year pay.