No college degree......

[tjo024]

How far up the ladder could you get as a pilot without a college degree? Could you still make a reasonably good living without the degree? How many of you dont have degrees? Thanks

 

[English]

Private message pilotyip, he has all the answers.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Private message pilotyip, he has all the answers.

Ask him, or just do a search - you'll find threads with all the degree questions you may have.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

not the degree question AGAIN!

PFT,Degree,PFT,Degree,PFT,Degree..

folks, there IS a "search" option at the top of the page.


but anyways....heck NO! - you dont need a stinkin degree. Heck, there is not even much competition for pilot jobs these days, they will hire any warm body. Dont waste your time sitting in a classroom, experience and hours rules. that is all. Start building that precious flightime while the other losers shell out all those bucks for a dumb degree.

(Thats basically what PilotYipper will post next)

 

[bobbysamd]

Brief pro-degree post

Yip has a point that a college degree has little to do with flying an airplane. Notwithstanding the personal development benefits of a college education, possessing the degree is an employability issue. The airlines and plenty of other aviation companies want it, so, if you don't have it, you will be disadvantaged. Besides, to get many jobs in which you can build hours, such as university aviation programs, you need a degree.

To answer your other two questions, you can get decent-paying pilot work eventually without a college education, but reread the above comments. I have a B.S. in B.A., which I earned long before I started flying.

 

[banned username 2]

Me thinks with sudden Avatar and "Current Position" change that Gulfstream 200 is in school!!!

Enjoy the new ride! Don't forget about us guys flying the "little airplanes"!

 

[pilotyip]

without a degree

I know of pilots hired at NWA, UAL, DAL, Spirit, AirTran, Jet Blue and FedEx without degrees. A degree may open doors, but flight time and experience will get you your flying job. If you go to college on line and get a degree from Bumbble Bee State in lawn cutting you will check the box on your application. In the mean time you are working in your profession building time and producing a fantasic resume. Of the pilots who won WWII very few had college degrees, the same in Vietnam in the Army helo drivers. In both cases these guys did one heck of a job. The degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Rules can be learned better with hands on application on the job working for a good company. You will know them better than the UND, ERU, graduates, because you lived it. I know because I hired both. We have number of pilots working for us without degree many making over 100K per year flying the DC-9 as Captain. There is life outside of the pro college rating found on this board.

 

[pilotyip]

Party time

However if having lots of fun, lots of different girls, wild weekend parties, and kicking back for a while, then go to college.
All the time building up alot of debt that will take you forever to pay back while living a proverty wages as an entry level pilot, but you will able to look down on your fellow pilots who do not have degrees. Now the debt part does not count if you have someone sponsering you through collge. After you graduate your sponser could help you through PFT. Woops! wrong thread

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

My obligatory predictable response...

I know of pilots hired at NWA, UAL, DAL, Spirit, AirTran, Jet Blue and FedEx without degrees.

I know pilots at major and national airlines who were hired in the last few years with DUIs-recent DUIs. By PILOTYIPS' flawed logic, one might recommend that an aspiring pilot go out and get a DUI since drinking and driving have little to do with flying. After all, it's your flying that counts. I regularly recommend to folks with trouble in their past to keep plugging, but a lack of a degree is one of the easiest things to overcome...just get one!

If you go to college on line and get a degree from Bumbble Bee State in lawn cutting you will check the box on your application. In the mean time you are working in your profession building time and producing a fantasic resume.

EXACTLY!
I see on this and one from last month that PILOTYIP has changed his tune a bit to a more realistic note. I'd agree fully that for one going the civilian route, getting started with the aviation career and securing a solid, quality, hours-building job and THEN working the degree into your resume while already creating a quality flying backround is a valid option that, for the industrious go-getter, can make a candidate stand out sooner in life. But don't wait until you have 2500TT, 1000PIC and 500ME before you pick up a college catalog. Get on it early, but for the love of foamies in Thailand, GET ON IT!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Re: Party time

After you graduate your sponser could help you through PFT. Woops! wrong thread

Easy Bobby, he was kidding!

 

[NightFlyer]

Pilotyip,
I'm curious how long your buddies at FedEx ,without a degree, have been there. I've flown with guys that were hired early on that didn't have it but all the guys hired recently have one. I'm not for or against the degree but I can tell you that I certainly wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't possess one. As far as money goes, I didn't have a lot of money for college myself so I had ole Uncle Sam help out and I gained some valuable experince in the process.


NightFlyer

 

[hydroflyer]

You can never have too many career backups. Ever get nervous when you go in for your medical, knowing what hangs in the balance????

 

[banned username 2]

Re: without a degree

Of the pilots who won WWII very few had college degrees, the same in Vietnam in the Army helo drivers. In both cases these guys did one heck of a job.

Hey Dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore... Times have changed... Things are FAR more competitive than when these guys (whom most are retired by now) were hired...

My question is, if you are SO against getting a degree, why do you have not one, but 2 of them yourself? Did you bump your head and forget what a "waste of time college is"???

If you want to fly professionally AND have the most opportunities available to you, get the degree... If you want to fly some rat-a$$ed Falcon 20 freighters for the rest of your days, by all means don't waste your time in college...

The choice is yours, make it wisely...

 

[Green Banana]

Look, you can’t argue with the numbers. The fact is that 38% of the people in the U.S. have a bachelor’s degree or higher. 87% of the pilots hired at the majors in the last 10 years have a 4 year degree.

 

[FlyingSig]

Re: without a degree

I know of pilots hired at NWA, UAL, DAL, Spirit, AirTran, Jet Blue and FedEx without degrees.

Likewise, I'm curious about these DAL pilots you know. While there are indeed Delta pilots without a degree...they were not hired by Delta. They came there via Western, Pan Am, etc.. To be hired as a pilot by Delta Air Lines, a 4 year degree is a requirement and has been for at least 30 years.

 

[wil]

A lot of pilots don't have degrees. But, what line of flying are you looking into and what are the % of degree holders? The more on your resume the better.
Also, I did a tour of "15 minute callout to Willow Run". Some may love the life but I could not wait to get out! 100K and life on the pager is nothing to write home about-

 

[bobbysamd]

College degrees

In the mean time you are working in your profession building time and producing a fantasic resume.

How? If so many employers want a degree, how will you get those jobs? Besides, without the degree your resume will not be that fantastic.

Of the pilots who won WWII very few had college degrees, the same in Vietnam in the Army helo drivers.

Times were different back in WWII. Not that many members of the population had college. Chuck Yeager did not have a degree. But, nowadays, college is open to nearly anyone, and degrees are expected. Therefore, a degree, from an accredited school, even Bumble Bee State, has to be part of your armament and repertoire.

Here again, why shoot yourself in the foot from the beginning? Get the degree and keep the playing field level.

 

[TurboS7]

Four years of college no degree. I do all the flying that no one else wants to do. So far this year it has taken me to, HNL, Marshall Islands, Guam, Cambodia, Pataya Beach Thailand, Japan, Germany, Belgium,Turkey, Iceland, Goose Bay,Kosovo, Macedonia,Kuwait via Iraq many times,Paris,BDL,RDU, MKJS,IAD,MIA, DEN, SFO,TPA. Now I sit at home with a broken tooth waiting for the dentist. Now last year..........

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Four years of college no degree. I do all the flying that no one else wants to do. So far this year it has taken me to, HNL, Marshall Islands, Guam, Cambodia, Pataya Beach Thailand, Japan, Germany, Belgium,Turkey, Iceland, Goose Bay,Kosovo, Macedonia,Kuwait via Iraq many times,Paris,BDL,RDU, MKJS,IAD,MIA, DEN, SFO,TPA. Now I sit at home with a broken tooth waiting for the dentist. Now last year..........

That sounds like a job that's right up my alley...especially the pattaya Beach part (among others). You would have to admit, though, that most folks doing that sort of flying, at least have a degree from bumblebee tuna state or whatever. I've been an exception to a few rules along the way as well, but I wouldn't recommend one take on those exceptions that I had to OVERCOME to land a decent flying job. Get the sheepskin...one way or another, do it.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Look, you can’t argue with the numbers. The fact is that 38% of the people in the U.S. have a bachelor’s degree or higher. 87% of the pilots hired at the majors in the last 10 years have a 4 year degree.

Not doubting you, but what's the source of those numbers?

BTW I say get the degree! It doesn't matter what it's in just get the degree; it shows you can accomplish something.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Education for education's sake is a good reason in itself. Get the degree whether you want to become a pilot, doctor, or a selfmade millionaire. It's good to learn and be educated regardless of what you do for a living.

 

[FN FAL]

Reluctantly crouched at the starting line
Engines pumping and thumping in time.
The green light flashes, the flags go up.
Churning and burning they yearn for the cup.
They deftly manuver and muscle for rank,
Fuel burning fast on an empty tank.
Reckless and wild they pour through the turns.
Their prowess is potent and secretly stern.
As they speed through the finish the flags go down.
The fans get up and they get out of town.
The arena is empty except for one man,
Still driving and striving as fast as he can.
The sun has gone down and the moon has come up,
And long ago somebody left with the cup.
But he's driving and striving and hugging the turns,
And thinking of someone for whom he still burns.

(chorus)
He's going the distance,
He's going for speed.
She's all alone (all alone) all alone in her time of need.
Because he's racing and pacing and plotting the course.
He's fighting and biting and riding on his horse.
He's going the distance. (aaaaawww aaawww)

No trophy, no flowers, no flashbulbs, no line-
He's haunted by something he can not define.
Bowel shaking earthquakes, of doubt and remorse.
Assail him impale him with monster truck force.
In his mind he's still driving; still making the grade.
She's hoping in time that her memory will fade.

Because he's racing and pacing and plotting the course.
He's fighting and biting and riding on his horse.
The sun has gone down and the moon has come up.
And long ago somebody left with the cip
But he's striving and driving and hugging the turns,
And thinking of someone for whom he still burns.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

In 2 corporate, 1 135, and 2 airline jobs I have only met one pilot without at least a 2 year degree. Most had 4 years.

The one guy without any degree that I flew with was at the regional level and had 12 years in with the company. One of the best pilots I ever flew with, but couldn't get the time of day from any of the big boys.

You do see some of the 25 + year guys at the majors without a degree but none in the junior ranks.


Get the degree.

 

[TurboS7]

Unless you are in business for yourself, in which case the sky is the limit. You will make less that 100K without a degree and do what flying is left over after all the degree guys have picked through it.Having a degree is like being part of a club, either you are or you are not. The majors require that box to be checked and that is just the way it is and forever more will be.

 

[AA717driver]

I just talked to a fellow furloughed ex-TWA type. Former 727/717/MD80 Capt., 12,000 hours... the usual.

A couple years of college, no degree. No job. Zip. Many others with lower quals have gotten other flying jobs. The lack of a degree is the only thing I can see that keeps him on the street.TC

 

[pilotyip]

JB Major?

Turbos7 is not Jet Blue on its way to becoming a major?, check the JB college degree thread and you will see you can get hired at JB with out a degree. So do not say the degree is the only way to a major. We hire pilots with and without degrees based upon who they are, how easy they are to get along with, and can they become Captains. We are getting some great guys, with and without degrees.

 

[bobbysamd]

You stand (virtually) alone . . . .

So do not say the degree is the only way to a major. We hire pilots with and without degrees based upon who they are, how easy they are to get along with, and can they become Captains. We are getting some great guys, with and without degrees.

But, Yip, that is you and your company. I submit that how you hire is not reflective of airline hiring at large.

Here again, we do not have a whole lot of control over our the experience we can offer. Fate generates our career paths and employers. However, we do have control over our credentials. Nearly anyone can get into an accredited college these days. You don't even need a high school diploma; you can do it with a G.E.D. at Bumble Bee CC.

You always argue that one should forego college in favor of building experience. However, to get a great many jobs, and experience, college is sought in the hiring profile. Once more, why short yourself deliberately? The benefits of education aside for the moment, it still boils down to an employability issue.

 

[English]

How far up the ladder could you get as a pilot without a college degree?

You could as far up the ladder as the company that doesn't require a degree for employment. So, you could work at any regional airline out there. You could not work at any airline that requires a degree. You'd have a chance at working for a company that "prefers" a four year degree, such as Alaska, Southwest and Aloha, but even those companies require at least a two year degree or 60 units, I believe. Maybe if you were a stellar candidate in every other way, the companies without a hard degree requirement would look at you.

 

[FN FAL]

He's going the distance,
He's going for speed.
She's all alone (all alone) all alone in her time of need.
Because he's racing and pacing and plotting the course.
He's fighting and biting and riding on his horse.
He's going the distance

You guys can argue against the college degree all you want...while I'm going the distance, I'm going for speed!!! I'm racing and pacing and plotting the course. I'm fighting and biting and riding on my horse. I'm going the distance!

 

[pilotyip]

Turbo Jet PIC

I have nothing against a college degree I have a couple. I just feel its importance in an aviation career is misplaced. Young aspiring pilots need exposure to alternate points of view. That is the my purpose for my stance. When it comes to getting an interview, turbo jet PIC will open more eyes than a college degree, now if the pilot has worked through an on-line degree to go with his/her 2000 hrs of Jet PIC, he/she will go to the front of the line every time. They will get that job at age 27-29 and have 30+ years to build seniority. You are wasting four years of quality flight time building opportunity going to college if your career goal is to be a pilot. Now if your career choice is to be a pilot (maybe) and you want that degree to fall back on. Get a real degree in something that has a market value, engineering, accounting, computer programming, difficult courses that develop your thinking abilities. To spend four years and 50K-100K to graduate with a degree in professional aviation with 500 hours of flight time, in my view, is a waste of time and money. If you want to go to college I will not think less of you, but if your goal is to be a pilot FLY as much as possible as soon as possible. I have nothing against anyone who has gone to college, however I have never judged anyone by their possession of or absence of a degree. And it really has nothing to do with flying an airplane. I have found no correlation between success and failure in our training program based upon degree status. In fact most of our training failures have possessed college degrees. Please no shots at our training program, it speaks for itself.